Page 4 of 6

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:13 pm
by Gordon-Loomberah
It's great to see some people are thinking ahead for the end of year FIT transition :) although I reckon there will be quite a few who are caught out. When do you think they might change your meter over? I believe that with a suitable smart meter you can have it changed over early, and they just send a signal at changeover time to switch it from Gross to Net FiT.

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:40 pm
by davidg
australsolarier wrote:hi everbody, an update for my 48V/400ah lifepo4 system. Programming the selectronic was an other matter though. in default mode, it just drains the battery into the grid.

The SP-pro is not a simple, just set a couple of settings and it will work perfectly. If you want it to work really well then it must be setup properly. This includes correctly wiring it and all other parts as well. The level of detail it has is why it able to do all sorts of things others simply cannot, simple so called "intuitive" products have limited options and are generally not flexible in their abilties.

ATM, You are using a PB setting and it must be correctly setup to suit LiFePO4 there is NO DEFAULT MODE at the moment, and in fact the "default" even in the future is at best just a rough configuration that must be refined to suit the specific installation, batteries etc, otherwise you are doing the unit and system a real dis-service.

australsolarier wrote:the solar installer wasn't much help in programming the selectronic. as a matter of fact he was sceptical the selectronic can feed in power whilst dc coupled.

So essentially a wire jockey.

australsolarier wrote:they are used to install the selectronic ac coupled. this is much easier and straight forward than dc coupled. program and installation wise.

I repeat essentially a wire jockey. It's really not hard or much different to configure the system for a DC-coupled implementation, in fact it's not hard to configure it for both AC and DC coupled at the same time.

australsolarier wrote:for example to program "solar hybrid control" in the selectronic, when you put the dates from 1.1.16 to 1.4. 17 , well, it refuses to do what you want it to do, the date has to be 1.1.16 to 31.12.16.

Ignore the year and think purely as from one period to another it will repeat the setting/priority every year, easier than it might appear initially. Don't try and configure for more than a 12 month period, the configuration will be repeated EVERY YEAR the year has to be ignored or more to the point not really considered. Any Priority must be configured for a period of 12 months or less.

Always configure priorities from 8 upto 1 if required. DO NOT configure them the other way round. Leave a gap so that if needed an extra one or two can be added in between so by default use 8 & 5, (Updated firmware will allow them to be switched around) always have a default setup on priority 8 that covers a 24 hour period and is all year round. Use other priorities to override it with specific times and periods.

australsolarier wrote:The midnite classic and the selectronic have to work in tandem. so when the classic goes into float it sets the selectronic charging side into float too. to feed in the surplus of solar generation into the grid, float value in the selectronic has to be 0.1 V lower than in the midnite (for lifepo4 battery). you can set float lower in the selectronic but it will drain the battery into the grid until the selectronic's float value is reached. also the midnite classic shunt for SOC is used by the selectronic as well, so it knows what is going in or out of the battery. this shunt can be programmed to be SOC in the selectronic as well, and can be zeroed in via the software. the selectronic does not fall back to bulk mode over night on its own, at the moment i am doing this externally with a timer.


Ensure it is wired correctly according to the SP-Pro installation manual and possibly use the 2nd relay in the Midnite to tell the SP-Pro to go to bulk/inital if really required, programmed and wired correctly generally not required.

australsolarier wrote:so i am happy with the hardware side of the selectronic. the software is a different matter. it is just not intuitive. at the moment it also does not have default settings for lifepo4, which causes the software to complain. that is supposed to be changed though with a software update according to davidg.

I would NOT rely on the any default settings they are generic and they are supposed to get it up and running, which they do, but they are not to be relied on for PROPER configuration.

australsolarier wrote:as for the cheap mpp products, they are now upset because their chinese countrymen do the same to them what they do so well, namely copying other products.

Compared to an SP-Pro it's a totally different, short warranty product.

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:50 pm
by australsolarier
they did not say when they are going to change the bidirectional meter. some times before the change over. it is free to change it. it can be remotely read and also remotely changed from gross to net feed in. i had the option to refuse the new meter as well.

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:12 pm
by davidg
australsolarier wrote:it can be remotely read and also remotely changed from gross to net feed in. i had the option to refuse the new meter as well.


Staying with the metering you have now, would not make much sense, once the FIT is over.

The so called smart metering has other drawbacks, as we have seen here in Victoria, such as massive overcharging on a bill, people being cutoff even though there was no reason, etc. Smart meters are smart for the distributor and retailer, they can be a real pain in the neck for the consumer.

Other things that have occurred in Vic is they are only required to display how many kWh's you have used and or exported. In Victoria They are not required to tell you the last readings both import and export and the current readings both import and export extracted from the meter. Some idiot in State government at the time allowed (flipping lobybists & rorting) decided they didn't have to provide that little bit of extremely valuable data :(

Would be an excellent check to ensure that what is being billed is correct however without this simple bit of detail it falls on the consumer to prove they have incorrectly billed you. This alone has caused an awful lot of EMOV complaints. In your case I can't see any way around it, if you expect to have net metering rather than gross.

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:31 pm
by australsolarier
davidg,
it is not a smart meter a such. just reads bidirectional currents. besides, i am keeping a fairly tight control of what is going out and in using the inverter etc. besides i can always go offline.
i think the smart meters in victoria is not what they are talking about here. they are already installed in many places. everybody that installs a solar system with net feed in has that meter installed. you cannot calculate net feed in with two meters. only the two totals, but not what of your own electricity you are using from solar generation.
greetings urs

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:52 pm
by Ray
Awesome to hear your making progress, so wish i could afford an SP PRO.

I have owned a morningstar TS-MPPT-60 Charger for over 4 years now and i am still learning things about the charge settings. And i think it is but a small part of what an SP PRO can do so you could be still learning things about how to set it in 40 years.

Anyhow experience has shown me that if in doubt ask ask ask and keep asking until you understand it, i am sure the people at selectronic should be very helpful in explaining anything the manual does not seem to cover.

Cheers
Ray

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:56 am
by australsolarier
yes the selectronic is a major investment. it is supposed to last a life time. at least that is what i am hoping. other people buy 70'000$ hiluxes which they do not really need. suppose my stream of money went to renewables and independence from the electricity providers. in particular as they insist here on generating from coal. trying to sell the nsw grid to the chinese government.
on the difficulties of programming the selectronic, it is almost bordering on the religious side. plus i discovered two software bugs.
also have not found out yet how to set the selectronic so it switches to "bulk" mode over night. it just stays in float mode except when the voltage goes down to "rebulk". at the moment i am doing this with an external timer signalling the selectronic to switch to bulk at midnight. (i could also program the selectronic to do it itself with one of the timer facilities that are built in.
so for this to properly work the midnite classic charger would need 3 aux relays. one for "bulk", one for "float" and the third one for the whizbang jr to calculate end amps and SOC.
i could probably use the "aux float high" signal in "reverse mode". but would need to include a relay in between the midnite and the selectronic. the midnite relay only has two connections. the relay then would signal "bulk" to the selectronic in normally closed mode. the midnite activates the relay to switch the normally open to closed and activates "float" in the selectronic. i might try this later.

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:40 am
by australsolarier
hello i am back.
found a more elegant solution to the problem. doubled up the "float" signal wires from the midnite to the selectronic input to float stage and bulk inputs. but reversed bulk what they call in the selectronic "stage edge" to falling as compared float to rising.
so in more plain english language, when the midnite is in bulk and switches to float, the signal makes the selectronic charger side go to float. however turning of the float signal the selectronic goes to bulk. this also solves the problem so the midnite and selectronic rebulk at the same time and voltage levels.
now, i just have to see if it works in practice.
no worries i will get there.

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:29 pm
by davidg
australsolarier wrote:plus i discovered two software bugs.

What are the software bugs?

Re: selectronic or victron inverter?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:45 pm
by australsolarier
A) the timers, if timing more than one year, it lets you program alright, but then does not follow instructions. and no greying out or anything. so you cannot program say from 1.1.16 to 4.4.17. it quite happily lets you set the those dates.

B) under the configuration/system/ multiple charging tab if you enable "multiple chargers" (more than one selectronic sp pro) then, what what what what!!!!!!! you might think as you have only ONE selectronic inverter this has no consequence. but as it turned out, when multiple chargers are enabled the selectronic then does not grid feed. and under the solar hybrid control tab no graying or anything lets you know it is disabled.
i myself did not click that enabling of multiple chargers. it was done either inadvertently or deliberately when i let somebody program the selectronic software remotely. i then spent an hour sussing out why it is not grid feeding anymore. luckily i watched when the software tabs were changed.
and that is only two that i have found so far.