Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby Tracker » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:39 pm

trebla wrote:.... Not so. 10 kW in NSW. Single phase. ......


Then you have not read of the Nov1 change..

I understood that there is now a general limit of 5kW per phase..
One MAY be able to negotiate something different, but more than 5kW would be initially refused..

but I am happy to be proved wrong..

As for the basic deal and it's value: that will be determined by your IMPORT and EXPORT numbers..
18c is a distinct improvement on 8c..
The 2GB 50UPclub thing is a scam and I would now be worried about ANY product they push, because I bet the station gets a 'forever' kickback..
BUT - with the CLICK energy - you can go direct, as previously indicated..

so then, the remaining question is - WHAT is the best power offer around for a SOLAR customer..
is anyone giving 12%..? or better..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby Tracker » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:45 pm

trebla wrote:Not so. 10 kW in NSW. Single phase. I have 7.6 kW. Being an early entrant, this cost me a fortune anyway, so

Well again, it does not affect you now, but I DID say from Nov1st I think it was...???
I am always on the lookout for a retailer who will genuinely give a FIT bonus (without taking away or rendering irrelevant all the benefits given to those customers who are not net exporters) to help defray the capital investment. I wrote to Click Energy for details of fixed charges, tariffs and bonuses and was quite surprised that an installation which attracts the NSW government FIT for domestic installations would be ineligible for a bonus they offered to domestic customers. I have it all in writing.

Thanks for that.. I don't have it in writing other than the general web statement, and they implied that whatever you get now, you get 10c MORE after..
So 60c becomes 70c...

The outcome: I am still looking for a retailer who will actually pay for the net 40-odd kWh of peak daytime electricity which they are all happy to take from me for nothing.........

I tend to think that they consider you have no choice... accept or don't save anything from your investment.
Accept 8c or buggar off and have nothing...
CLICK energy....it remains for most, TOO BAD TO ACCEPT.

So what is the best offer that you have seen..? If this is unacceptable...
Nothing and going HYBRID or OFFGRID is your other option..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby trebla » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:51 pm

Nothing and going HYBRID or OFFGRID is your other option..


Exactly, Tracker, and come 2017 this will be the most likely course of action, with the rapid advances and falling prices in battery and other energy storage technology making this a real economic consideration and not just a 'spit the dummy' option. That is unless better deals are available from retailers in the face of losing critical peak generation at a reasonable price as other net exporters follow the same course. Keenly following threads on energy storage and electric vehicles.

it does not affect you now..


Thanks for the follow-up post - you had me worried for a minute that there had been another attempt to retrospectively move the goalposts that I had somehow missed!
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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby Tracker » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:03 am

.....you had me worried for a minute that there had been another attempt to retrospectively move the goalposts that I had somehow missed...


Just don't try any changes... as I understand it, a request for change requires full compliance for the changed components and I would bet they would look hard at the 10kW issue..
Mind you, it could be fixed by adding another phase.. but that would likely cost a couple of grand all up..

I can understand their need for control, in balancing and controlling the network..

I marvel at how the grid survives the wild excursions that must happen on broken weather days...
I know that I am seeing significant voltages these days... like 255v..

I have written to CLICK, seeking clarification of their fine print. But... reading the details for SHINE and for AUSGRID, they clearly say 60c becomes 70c..

So, 70c and 7% still must be hard to beat ... but it definitely excludes systems greater than 5kW.. buggar, he replies..
..
.,
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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10c Extra - for solar export -- WRONG-WRONG-WRONG

Postby Tracker » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:48 pm

.. I got a reply to my clarification email
Click Shine is an energy plan for those who have solar panels installed at their home.
With one of the highest solar feed in tariffs on the market – a whopping 10c – Click Shine lets you get the most out of the sun’s rays keeping your energy bills down.
Additionally, any unused solar power you generate can be sold back to Click Energy in exchange for credits to put towards your electricity account.


not quite what you think.. You don't get 10c extra - THEY fund to the tune of 10c.
The NSW Govt. REQUIRED that all energy retailers, pay people (was it) 6.9c, and so CLICK is saying that THEY will pay 10c.

So for those with newer solar systems, that is ALL you get - 10c,
whereas those on the Solar Bonus programs of 60c and 20c, get that 10c as extra, making it 70c and 30c.. :cry:
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby Tracker » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:52 am

Tracker wrote:
The 2GB 50UPclub thing is a scam and I would now be worried about ANY product they push, because I bet the station gets a 'forever' kickback.....


My apologies.. :oops: ... It was the "OneBigSwitch" mob who were promoting this product and THEY were the ones getting the kickback..
With the original post reference removed/changed to CLICK, it lost the link to who was pushing it..

This mob... OneBigSwitch... has been caught out previously , pushing a wonderful offer,
that is of better advantage to THEM than the customer..
I think they offered 17% discount on power, but you found the base rates were that much HIGHER than normal anyway..
I doubt that I would EVER believe that OneBigSwitch was worth the troubles..

So - sorry 50UpClub, but it must have been 2GB pushing the product in the first place..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
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Finally the proper offer - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby Tracker » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:19 am

..
OK - So I thought that offer was through the 50UPclub.. THEY say I was wrong, another "senior moment" ;)
but just now, the official offer from the 50UPclub..
[url]https://www.fiftyupclub.com/campaigns/electricity-special-offer/energy_plans?utf8=%E2%9C%93&do_query=true&plan_query[for_business]=false&plan_query[postcode_suburb]=2210%2C+LUGARNO&plan_query[plan_type_id]=1&plan_query[is_solar]=1[/url]
PLAN FEATURES
$50 of rebates: $25 off your first bill + $25 after 1 year
10c additional Click Energy bonus feed-in tariff
7% pay-on-time discount off total bill (applied after solar rebates have been applied)
NO

lock-in period, no exit fees, no credit card fees.


So that is more like it.. They give the 7% discount where the other mongrel mob kept your 7%.

The still-uncertain issue is the 10c..

There is ONLY one way you can read that benefit "10 cents ADDITIONAL"
So the fine print had better NOT say that the total paid for Non-GFIT is 10c total when you are now getting 8c..

If you want to test it - ring them.. but this IS the fine print...

Click Shine

10c premium feed-in tariff
7% Pay-on-time discount: Discount is off total bill payable by customer, AFTER solar rebate credits have been applied.
$50 of rebates - $25 off your first bill + $25 after 1 year.
Tree-friendly email bills (customers with no email can request paper billing)
No exit fees or credit card fees
Monthly bills
Plan for a 5kW maximum solar panel system size
Plan applies to main place of residence and only one per property

When is the solar credit and pay-on-time discount applied?

The solar credit comes off first; the remaining amount is what is eligible for the pay-on-time discount
For example, if you use $100 worth of electricity and generate $60 worth of electricity, your 7% discount applies to the $40 not to the entire $100.

Billing: You will receive monthly instalments of $50, with a quarterly wash-up or actual reads:

At the end of the first month you will get a bill for an estimated amount of around $50.
At the end of the second month you get a bill for an estimated amount of around $50.
Then, at the end of the third month, you get a bill for the actual amount of electricity you have used MINUS any advanced payments you have made

For example...

Anthony signs up to the special offer. He gets a bill at the end of the first month for $50 and a bill at the end of the second month for $50 - meaning so far, he's paid $100 for that quarter.

At the end of the three months, Click reads his meter and he gets an actual bill for $300 for the electricity he's actually used for that quarter. The $100 he's already paid in advance is taken off, so the amount owing is only $200.


I think the BIG catch is the clause that suggests that the 7% discount is applied to what YOU owe THEM..
ie.. IF your IMPORT is $1000 and your EXPORT is $500, then the 7% is off the remaining $500..
So... depending on what you generate, the discount is diminished.
but the 10c Premium statement is THERE and you could have them in court if it's wrong..

If you are a lucky sod, whose EXPORT always exceeds IMPORT value, then there is NO discount..
BUT.. there is still the 10c extra per unit exported..

the NUMBERS are all so important.. Each of us will be different as to the relative benefit.
For some , a 12% discount on IMPORT (from another seller) could be better than a 10c premium on EXPORT

The above LINK is for the 50UPclub offer, and it IS likely the same as the standard offer, but WITH the exception that the fine print in this offer does seem to say 10c EXTRA.
Just perhaps that alone is a benefit in belonging to the club.
Just perhaps it was included for CLUB members, because I "someone" pointed out how deceptive the standard offer was.. ;)
..
Do the sums..

for us - we have an average Gross GENERATION (EXPORT) of about 20 a day... That means $180 EXTRA a quarter, but with NO Import discounts :roll: $60 a month for nothing.. 30 ALDI meat pies to savoir..

NETt feed in will have a big effect on the value to you
..
.
PS - Has anyone found a BETTER offer..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
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Scammers and Bloody Scammers

Postby Tracker » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:47 pm

..
Scammers and Bloody Scammers..

found the time to ring CLICK energy.
The first girl declared that "Whatever you get NOW, you will get 10c more"...
....EXACTLY as the words are written..

I rang back and spoke to another girl who said that SHE knew the facts, and that despite the words, that they will pay 10c above the GOVT. REBATES..
ie... In NSW, the Govt either pays 60c or 20c and so THEY will get 70c and 30c.

ALL the rest get just 10c..

So - what are you being paid NOW.. I understood that legislation had been passed in NSW that everyone should be paid the first 7 or 8c by the retailer.. Meaning that the minimum should be that legislated amount..

Anyway yet again - FORGET my suggestion that this is a good idea..
How can you trust ANY mob, who can't even get their story consistent..?

Now, in MY area the provider is Energy Australia and they will pay the legislated amount of 6.9c (??) a unit.
Sign up TODAY and that is what you WILL get.. ANYONE
Now - CLICK energy is claiming that after you churn to them, they will pay you... additional (10c) Click Energy bonus feed-in tariff

So - your current 6.9c goes to 10c..

Any Bush Lawyers out there want to sue this mob...
or is it just ME.. that is DUMB...., thinking that I would be getting 16.9 after changing.. :evil: :evil: :evil:
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby trebla » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:56 pm

So - your current 6.9c goes to 10c.


I had the same thought, Tracker, but the web site did mention a figure of 70c. The only way to know for sure is to do it and find out. I decided not to, but not for that reason. Country Energy (now Origin) is also cryptic, as they have quoted an IMPORT tariff of 31.x c/kWh (and have for some time), same as Click, but charge 26.x c/kWh (both ex GST) on the bill. There is a difference of 5c/kWh which I would not want to lose for a start, so best left alone, even if they are paying the legislative minimum for export. So who knows what other hidden benefits or charges there might be on either side. Probably all best left alone until 2017, when the rules will probably have changed again and rendered all this effort wasted. Meanwhile, I will just keep up with energy storage options so I can go off grid, or make whatever configurational changes are necessary to get the best result in 2017.

By the way (off topic), have you seen the unit Fronius are developing involving electrolysis, hydrogen storage and fuel cell, as an alternative to batteries? Sounds expensive, but so are battery banks. The fuel cell component is already being sold, and there is no new technology in electrolysis and compressed gas storage, so that might be a goer by 2017.
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Re: Too Good TO IGNORE ?? - 10c Extra - for solar export

Postby Tracker » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:30 pm

By the way (off topic), have you seen the unit Fronius are developing involving electrolysis, hydrogen storage and fuel cell, as an alternative to batteries? Sounds expensive, but so are battery banks. The fuel cell component is already being sold, and there is no new technology in electrolysis and compressed gas storage, so that might be a goer by 2017.

We will live in H.O.P.E., but intuitively, I can't help thinking that it will be FAR from efficient.
But- if you can add sufficient PV panels , and have the footprint, then perhaps ANYTHING will be good..




trebla wrote:....I had the same thought, Tracker, but the web site did mention a figure of 70c.


The 70c is sure mentioned as is the 30c, but the total deception lies with the 10c..
ALSO remember that the 7% IMPORT discount is pretty much useless, if you have anything other than a TINY system..
ie.. the discount is only on what you finally PAY, and naturally , if you GET-PAID, then there is no discount at all..

I think that we SOLAR folk have been dudded AGAIN..

The package for Non-Solar customers is VERY attractive, with 17% IMPORT discount, and for MY area, near-exact TOU figures but the interesting one is the daily charge, being CLICK 79c(plus) and EA being 75c (I think incl)..

The issue for some would be if they want to pay their bill MONTHLY ($50)..
As I read it in a cycle 50+50+Remainder..

But do remember that after 2 years the discount drops to 9%

Does'nt it get confusing..

Anyway - WE are all solar here, and that is what is important..

BTW - I got the feeling that in the "Fight" with the lass over words and terminology, today,
She was saying that .. "other sellers might pay 6c or 8c but that was their CHOICE.... we pay nothing and then give a 10c bonus.." :cry:
Thus - the implication is that all retailers don't have to pay the 6.9c mandated by the Govt..

Did I misunderstand that point.. is the NSW 6.9c only REQUIRED to be paid to Solar-Bonus customers..

Irrespective - if you are with EA today, then they will pay you their amount and you lose it when you change to CLICK..

The search for an honest retailer continues..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
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