I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

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I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby evadsiv » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:15 am

Considering that in most states the feed in tariff for Solar is the same as other generators (i.e. about 7-10c/kWh)
I believe that in this election there is a window to push for the 7-10c tariff to be a gross tariff for all the energy that we generate. Not just the energy that we export to the grid.
Since the energy that we use has to be generated. It just happens that we are the generator not some external company.
I know that this is not ideal but it is better than what most people can currently look at for new systems that they are looking to install.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Tracker » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:19 am

evadsiv wrote:.....I believe that in this election there is a window to push for the 7-10c tariff to be a gross tariff for all the energy that we generate. .....

How can that be of ANY value... :? getting paid (even) 10c for what they charge YOU 25c or 50c.. :cry:

No, sorry, but surely the only fair way to press for a 1:1 credit, and in this way, you could actually wipe out your bill (excluding Service Charges), and surely, THAT is the whole point in investing in SOLAR..

Just put back the old spinning meters.. :!: .... ;)
..
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:33 am

With a low FiT and a high price per imported kWh, I would have thought a gross FiT was the last thing people wanted! With a system producing say 20kWh/day, they'd receive, say @10c/kWh, $2.00 for the day, and if they used say 15kWh during the solar generation period, say @30c/kWh, they would pay $4.50. Under a net FiT, the 15kWh they imported would (approximately) be offset by their production, reducing their bill by $4.50, and they'd receive 50c for the other 5kWh exported.
Gross= pay $2.50, Net = receive 50c.
With a net FiT they would be getting 3 times (up to ~5X for peak rates here) the value for every kWh exported, so I cant understand your reasoning for wanting a gross FiT, unless you use no electricity at all.
With a net FiT, the best way to operate is to consume all the energy you produce, and import the minimum possible. Gross FiTs are not a good idea for the consumer, but the electricity companies want to go to gross, as it maximises their profits.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Tracker » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:43 am

..
:cry: .. Perhaps this may be emanating from areas where they get paid NOTHING for export....

PS - The Federal Govt.. has little to do with the payments.. It's STATE governments that control that, and as you see from the diverse systems.. from NOTHING for export , to 60c GFIT, even the states seem to be unable to really control what happens..
..
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:48 am

evadsiv wrote:I believe that in this election there is a window to push for the 7-10c tariff to be a gross tariff for all the energy that we generate. Not just the energy that we export to the grid.

Are you insane NET fit is an infintely better choice by far, gross would be just wrong.

To be worth while a GFIT needs to at least the same amount as you pay for power ad it also needs to go up as the buy price goes up, that's not economically viable for the long term, no matter how you slice it.

What reason would you think it would be better to be a Gross FIT, if you pay say 0.39c per kWh (peak) why would you want to sell it at 8c to 10c and then buy it back at that sort of price that just does not any economic sense, no matter how you look at it form the private persons point view. :o

I have to ask, do you work for a power company or a power retailer?
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:50 am

Tracker wrote:..
:cry: .. Perhaps this may be emanating from areas where they get paid NOTHING for export....


If you get no FiT for exported power, gross FiT makes even less sense!
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:53 am

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:...... no FiT for exported power, gross FiT makes even less sense!

+1 to that for sure
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:03 am

Like David, I wonder about the motive for pushing for a gross FiT, it is exactly what the electricity providers want.
Why do they want it? ... with a net FiT, using a slightly oversized system and using minimal energy when the sun isn't shining on your panels, it is possible to reduce your bill to not too much more than the standing charges. With a gross FiT you are guaranteed to have a large bill that grows with every price increase, with a pittance received for exports that have no hope of ever meeting your energy costs. That means greater profits for the companies selling electricity.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby FarmerJohn » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:20 am

davidg wrote:
evadsiv wrote:I believe that in this election there is a window to push for the 7-10c tariff to be a gross tariff for all the energy that we generate. Not just the energy that we export to the grid.

Are you insane...
...
I have to ask, do you work for a power company or a power retailer?


LOL, A bit mean perhaps, but a fair question given the context.

Never let it be considered that people on this forum are easily manipulated.

Gross fit makes sense if they pay you what you pay them. This will NEVER happen.

So, another safe assumption is they will NEVER pay you more than you pay them -except when there is a con being played over a medium term. This is the only scenario in which your average greedy easily led consumer will want to select Gross metering, and this is exactly the system that was engineered by the powers that be, because later these people will be royally screwed. Once that 60c FIT is over, its over. It wont come back. More and more people realize who pays that, which is the other poor electricity consumers that had to pay higher bills.

Most of them that start to realize what has happened will need to pay $400-$1000 (my estimate) to have the metering re-done so its Net metered.

The best and safest option for a consumer at this point in the "game" is Net metering.

Personally, I think the most SANE option is to go rural and disconnect and put all this nonsense behind you :)
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby evadsiv » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:49 am

Well It sounds that what I am talking about is not Standard Gross Feed in tariff then.

Currently if you put in a new system (in Vic anyway)
You get paid 7-10c/kWh that you export to the grid.
You pay standard timed rates for the power that you use from the Grid.

What I was talking about was that rather than getting paid only for the power that you export you get paid for all the power you generate. You still only pay for the power that you take from the Grid. I know that it is not very much money that I am talking about but at least it is a push back against all the tariff reductions being currently made.

I am not saying that you have to pay standard rates for the power that you generate and use.

All the other options that are mentioned are better than mine, but thus even less likely to happen due to the extra cost.

I cannot wait for cost effective battery systems to be available but the new Hybrid Grid systems that they are talking about are still in development. If I am mistaken about Hybrid Grid Systems please point me at them because I am looking at a new system for a new house.
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