I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby FarmerJohn » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:59 am

What you are describing is net metering.

Phew, this means both that you are not insane, nor that you work for the enemy :)

Perhaps it would be best to amend the topic title, if you cant, then ask the admin.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Tracker » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:12 pm

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:...If you get no FiT for exported power, gross FiT makes even less sense!


UMmmm, yes , naturally,, :oops: , but the idea was to get something...

evadsiv wrote:....What I was talking about was that rather than getting paid only for the power that you export you get paid for all the power you generate. You still only pay for the power that you take from the Grid. I know that it is not very much money that I am talking about but at least it is a push back against all the tariff reductions being currently made.

I am not saying that you have to pay standard rates for the power that you generate and use.


I suspect that it is just a case of not understanding the maths.. and confusion about how it works

I too, think that you really mean standard NET feed in.. You pay NOTHING for what you self consume, thus SAVING the higher energy cost, and what you simply can't us, is lost to the GRID at a small profit..

I cannot wait for cost effective battery systems to be available but the new Hybrid Grid systems that they are talking about are still in development. If I am mistaken about Hybrid Grid Systems please point me at them because I am looking at a new system for a new house.

There are a number available, but the big thing will always be the batteries..

The cheapest Energy Management System would have to be that of CMS, (or whatever called now) at about $6000..
..
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:35 pm

evadsiv wrote:What I was talking about was that rather than getting paid only for the power that you export you get paid for all the power you generate. You still only pay for the power that you take from the Grid.

No that that would be both a NET and a Gross FIT. That will definately never happen. You can't have your cake and eat it too. No one would wear that, who would pay for it? Certainly not government so that would the consumer without Solar, how is that fair on them?

Look at it this way every kWh you don't buy from a power company is a kWh you don't pay for at say 39 cents per kWh that represents good compromise, anything you export getting the current 8 cents per kWh in Vic is better than nothing it's above the average wholesale price for electricity paid to the bulk regular generators that provide base load and spin capacity on a daily basis.

If you never export power then chances are the solar system you have is too small, that may need to be revisited. Remember nothing is ever free you will pay for it one way of another. Batteries can be used now, designed and used correctly it will have an ROI of about 10 years thats not likely to change, as power prices go up and they will, so the ROI time frame should be shortened, it is far more likely that the price of batteries will also go up for amougst other things the AU dollar has gone down. If the Government was to introduce rebates for batteries the price for them would rise substantially, that would not be an option also the power companies would fight tooth and nail against them as that would really eat into profits so the price for power would rise again to compensate for lost profits, they have a right to do this, it's in the contracts with government to supply power. So don't be fooled it would help, it would not.

If you want to investigate using a Grid-interactive solution give me a yell. If your seriously interested and anywhere near Dandenong, then I'd be happy to show you a fully functioning battery based system running 2 houses with solar etc. Look at my signature at the bottom of the post it has the overview of my system. Any grid system can be retrofitted to Grid-interactive with batteries, it's only money.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:47 pm

Tracker wrote:The cheapest Energy Management System would have to be that of CMS, (or whatever called now)

You would go down that track considering the "restructure" that has/is occurred? And the warranty status, I'd be concerned.

Any decent system will cost more than that, sorry. The least I could figure any decent sytem would cost is $10k more depending on needs and demand. Better to spend it up front a get a great result than pay for a system that will not be able to deliver and in all likelihood will cost a lot more to fix up later.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:51 pm

davidg wrote:...anything you export getting the current 8 cents per kWh in Vic is better than nothing it's above the average wholesale price for electricity paid to the bulk regular generators that provide base load and spin capacity on a daily basis.


True, however, it is way, way below the peak rates the retailers (at least the ones who aren't also generators) pay when demand is high, which is when the generators make the vast majority of their profits. When the going rate is up around $10/kWh or more, which typically happens a few times each year during heat waves or particularly cold outbreaks, they'd love PV energy easing the demands on their system for only 8c/kWh!
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:09 pm

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:True, however, it is way, way below the peak rates the retailers (at least the ones who aren't also generators) pay when demand is high

Oh how I know that, but there was some reasoning behind the Vic FIT at 8c, it could have been worse various powers that be were pushing pretty hard for half that. Although it should have been indexed to match price rises in power charges to keep in line, that would have been more reasonable.

Gordon-Loomberah wrote: which is when the generators make the vast majority of their profits. When the going rate is up around $10/kWh or more

Yep theres push to raise that ceiling ............ of course :(

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:they'd love PV energy easing the demands on their system for only 8c/kWh!

Well at least get to use it first anyway.

Yes it has taken some of the edge of the ultra peaks. Vic needs a lot more to really make a real impact, QLD is doing much better than most other states in total Solar Kw installed. How their FIT is going to go now, well as I said nothing is free, and that lunch is now over.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby KPrawn68 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:51 pm

In SA the Retailers sent out letters telling everyone price rises were required to cover cost of Solar Owners. I fell off my chair laughing but for those that don't have solar they actually think that's the case.
I export at 9.8c from retailer topped up by the taxpayer component. The retailer then sells my exported power to my neighbor at 34c resulting in net profit to them of 24c for absolutely JACK.
They got balls blaming the solar industry on the rise following the previous couple of rises to gold plate the poles and cables in the street. Again actual demand on supply network being reduced by Solar so less infrastructure demand during days when large demand would have been applied.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby Smurf1976 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:33 pm

davidg wrote:Are you insane NET fit is an infintely better choice by far, gross would be just wrong.

Not if you export 80% of what you generate and the FIT is literally zero.....

Anyone with a large system and a house that's empty all day will export most of their production. That's certainly the case for me - daytime load Monday to Friday is the fridge, a clock and a few sensor lights on standby. Meanwhile my solar system pumps out the kWh's - straight into the grid. Works fine at 1:1 FIT but would be a financial dud for those where the fit is trivial or even zero.
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Re: I believe that the time is right to push for a gross Tariff

Postby davidg » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:15 am

Smurf1976 wrote:Not if you export 80% of what you generate and the FIT is literally zero.....

Well a net FIT still works but your not getting a FIT so that is a different issue altogether, anyway, still state based so the federal happenings not really relevant.

Time for a retrofit and batteries for your system, store it and use it later, if you can't paid for it you might as well catch it and use it yourself ;)
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The right System Design

Postby Tracker » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:36 am

davidg wrote:....Time for a retrofit and batteries for your system, store it and use it later, if you can't (get) paid for it you might as well catch it and use it yourself ;)


or, the alternative, by ensuring that you get to use MORE of it yourself.. Via Gordon's Virtual-Tracker..
ie.. move panels to E/W and even apply bias to give greater arvo production..

Being p'eed off because you are exporting too much is more a reflection on a total failure to DESIGN a system for YOUR needs..

I get annoyed to hear of folk paying for a 5kW ( or, gulp .. :cry: 10kW ) system , only to learn that it is near totally wasted to an 8c grid feed..
..
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