Energy Matters Forums

[Yortt]

Home owner COSTS
Cost on utillising your roof to generate power
Cost on equipment maintanance
Cost outlaying capital untill payed back

Government benefit
Saving state governments /tax payers the cost of building and maintaining an extra power station to meet growing demands.
Contributing to the reductions of green house gases.

Electricity company benefits
Buy clean energy at 5cpkw and sell at 25cpkw plus 500% margin not bad!

Home owner benefit
Pay 25cpkw and get back for clean energy generated 5cpkw (NSW Energy Australia)
If you want to offset your 25cpkw by using your own generated power upgrade your meter to a NET meter >$1600

Summary

There is no fair home owner incentive and as equipment failure costs kick in it will not be viable to repair and home solar generation will drop off the grid one by one "killing the goose that lays the golden egg" then every one loses!

[Smurf1976]

I fail to see how there's a cost of using the roof space for solar.

Unless you are one of the very few who happen to live at a prime location for advertising signage (eg top of a T-junction on a major road) then there's basically zero use for the roof that will produce an economic return to the owner. As such there is no opportunity cost of having put solar panels on it.

[davidg]

Hi all the net meter solar power is worse than any pyramid scheme and here is why it cost me to for the installation $1,600 over the past billing period of 83 days the usage is 133kWh and the solar contribution of 214kWh. I would think they would use the calculation of solar contribution less power usage.

No your calculations are inaccurate. They do not take into account the gross power produced and the portion then used on-site BEFORE there any power is exported. The power used on site is a direct cost offset at the price you would have paid for it, like if it had been purchased directly from the grid at whatever rate you pay for it during solar production hours.

[Yortt]

I fail to see how there's a cost of using the roof space for solar.

Unless you are one of the very few who happen to live at a prime location for advertising signage (eg top of a T-junction on a major road) then there's basically zero use for the roof that will produce an economic return to the owner. As such there is no opportunity cost of having put solar panels on it.

If you want access to place solar panels somewhere (on your homes roof) particularly in Sydney the cost to produce this space is considerable if the "system" gets a benefit from it and I have a cost for it should I not get a return on it using the commercial principals that the energy supply company use.

Further more I have been advised by Energy Australia that if I sign a supply contract they will install the net meter free of the initial cost, HOWEVER I will have to pay a quarterly fee FOR EVER! what happens if my solar installation fails down the track or worse shortly after this arrangement is put in place and given the return is so poor it would not justify spending the repair money, now I have no solar benefit and an ongoing increase in my electricity supply cost.

A solar system supposedly has a 25 year life span plugging some guestimate numbers in for replacement in 20 years time (now 5 years old) I would have to have savings greater that I can achieve now to replace it in 20 years and that is assuming it lasts another 20 years. Put the money in a fixed term investment account use the income to pay your electricity bill you will be far better off.

The new arrangement is totally unfair and I would suggest If you agree that it is and you have a solar system do as I will be doing is TURN IT OFF come 1st January until the viability improves if everyone done this the maybe this unfair arrangement would prompt a change.

[Gordon-Loomberah]

I suggest having a read of this comprehensive article from Solar Citizens regarding smart meter offerings

http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/smart_m ... _customers

[Yortt]

I suggest having a read of this comprehensive article from Solar Citizens regarding smart meter offerings

http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/smart_m ... _customers

Thanks for the link, however it further reinforces my decision to turn it off at least until I can access definitive answers so I can make an informed decision.

[Gordon-Loomberah]

>> given the return is so poor it would not justify spending the repair money, now I have no solar benefit

I don't understand how you can make this statement- given you already have a system on your roof, the cost of your electricity is essentially free during most of the day when it is sunny. The alternative is paying 20-50+c/kWh (I don't know your particular contract details) during the day, if you turn the system off.

[davidg]

however it further reinforces my decision to turn it off at least until I can access definitive answers so I can make an informed decision.

That is crazy logic ......... Why would you do this?

How much did the system produce altogether (gross production), typically the only place to get this particular reading is from the grid-inverter itself. Then you subtract the amount exported from the amount produced and that is how power you used onsite or in other words did not have to buy at xx cents per KwH = the rate you pay for peak power and that is how much you saved instead of paying for that power plus the small credit you received as well.

Turning off the system will ensure you pay for every KwH you use.

Power produced by the sun and consumed on site is power that is essentially "free" so to speak.
ie you did not have to buy it.
This has been proved time and time again, and generally shows a typical grid connect system will pay for itself normally in well under 5 years.

[Yortt]

>> given the return is so poor it would not justify spending the repair money, now I have no solar benefit

I don't understand how you can make this statement- given you already have a system on your roof, the cost of your electricity is essentially free during most of the day when it is sunny. The alternative is paying 20-50+c/kWh (I don't know your particular contract details) during the day, if you turn the system off.

I stand by the comment, I am not willing to commit to a $10 to $20 per month (Energy Australia) cost for ever, to pay for a Net meter for the reasons pointed out. Given this I will still be paying 26cpkwh any way.

You would have to ask why they cannot maintain the existing rebate system with very little changes by deducting the KW generated off the KW used and charge for the balance, i suspect this does not give them any leverage to make additional changes and additional profit.

I have a 3kw system it generates 4500kw per annum I will get paid 4500@.o61cents pkw this is $274.50 rebate per annum. The life expectancy of the system over years to come is 25 years (if I am lucky) of which there is 20 years left 20x $274.50 equals $5490 is this enough to replace it in 20 years (assuming it lasts another 20 years) maybe, maybe not in any case where does the money come from to reduce my electricity bills?

[LeeSMaz]

Yes the net meter is being gamed by the power companies.

Switching from gross to net myself.

Extra 25c a day supply charge to have the net meter instead of gross meter.

Ok, I may be a little better off just.

Until the prices go up again.

In fact, with the new feed in being 11c, tho I am yet to see it on my bills.

The difference may be minor if no benefit at all.

Of course, installing a 5kw system on the roof and turning things on in the day
that wouldnt normally be needed to be on.
and installing a pool etc I would then get some benefit from net meter.

So yes net meter it is, but at some point we will all have to look at off grid as the
bills keep going up no matter what we do and the connection charge goes up too.
If you have gas, then off grid is the only answer. And you will save and get ahead.
Better if you have a gas powered electrical generator for your house....
Wonder where I can buy one. The power companies get a 550% markup on electricity.

Eventually they will bill us just for the lines going past the house regardless of if connected.