Feed in tariffs and payments

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Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby TSkinner » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:28 am

Hi all,
I have just installed a 2Kw system and have yet to receive a bill.
I am curious to know exactly how the feed in tariffs work.
For example, if on day 1 I create an excess of 3 kw, but on day 2 I require 3 kw from the grid.
Does this mean, on day 1, I am paid 3 x 60c = $1.80, but on day 2 I need 3kw @ .20c = .60c.
Therefore , after 2 days I am still $1.20 in credit.
OR, is it calculated, not daily, but the GROSS difference at the end of the billing period?
Eg, created 200kw into the system, but drew 200kw on cloudy days, therefore no charge?
Te second system is not fair. A daily calculation seems a fair system.
Can anyone tell we what happens in practice?
Thanks

Trevor
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby MadMax » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:55 am

Hi Trev,

The detail of the Victorian Feed in Tariff Scheme have not yet been released ... and the scheme hasn't started.

Hopefully you weren't sold a system on the basis that the scheme had started. (and hopefully it wasn't one of the energy matters guys).

For more info see:

http://www.energymatters.com.au/index.php?main_page=news_article&article_id=593

and i'm sure the government department will make a big song and dance about it here:

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/dpinenergy.nsf/LinkView/47D19C1C08345367CA25736A001FCDF7866B51F390263BA1CA2572B2001634F9

regards,

Max
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby MadMax » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:11 am

People reading this post may also want to sign the gross feed in tariff petition:

http://www.feedintariff.com.au

A gross feed in tariff is much fairer, simplifies the calculation, and guarantees payback.

Max
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments - Victoria my 60c's worth

Postby tony3094 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:05 am

First time on any forum.
Hope I am following the right protocol. Should this have been a new topic?

I refer to the following words quoted by EnergyMatters Newsletter item, and which I also read sowehere else in Legislation Docs.

"Additionally, if the system owner generates credit over and above the cost of their electricity consumption during the billing period, the additional credit will then be rolled over to the next billing period, but only up to a maximum of 12 months from the generation date. Accumulated credit may then be voided after the 12 months, depending on the electricity retailer involved."

This highlited wording looks tricky. A literal reading suggests to me that "cost of electricity consumption" may not include the Service Charge,
Can anyone shed some light on this point?

Tony
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby MichaelB » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:41 am

Hi tony3094,

Welcome to the forums :).

The guidelines aren't clear on this - it's a good question and one you should probably ask your electricity retailer as it probably varies between them. If you do ask them, I'd be curious to know the results.
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby TSkinner » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:55 pm

Hi guys,
Thanks for the quick replies,
I figure that the gross energy consumption will be calculated at the end of each billing period.
It's not fair, but since wen ave energy companies treated their customers fairly?
Just hope we have lots of sunny days.
I installed the 2kw system ere in Melbourne because it should cover my electricity over the whole year.
If their is any "excess" (read gross) in and above my needs at the end of the year - I am hoping, and someone may be able to answer this one, to pay off some (all?) of my GAS bill.
I am with Origin energy, with both my gas and electricity.
They told me it would be possible. Has anyone else tried this?
Does it work??
Cheers

Trevor
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby markd » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:13 pm

G'day mate,

I am no expert but asked myself the same questions as you when Iwas deliberating installing my system.

I have a 1.5kw system and have been through one billing cycle with Origin but in SA.

What happened was this:

Before the new in/out meter was installed but after my system was installed my meter ran backwards for as long as you were generating more power than you were consuming.

When the in/out meter was installed, the amount you generate at any moment in excess of your consumption is credited in kw/hr. At the end of the billing cycle you get a credit for the total amount you generated in excess of your consumption at that moment, in kw/hr. In SA with Origin your bill gets credited at $0.50 per kw/hr. The trick with this (and the key message) is to minimise your demand for power during daylight hours so that more of the power you produce is put back on the grid and hence a credit to you. At night do what you normally do. For instance, I have three fridges/freezers - two in the shed. I have the shed ones on a timer that cuts them off for 5 hours during the day from 10 to 3. No problem with preserving the temp below -10c for the freezers and helps put more power on the grid.

Hope this helps understand how it works. I had the same gap in logic with this.

Mark
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby TSkinner » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:12 pm

Thanks Mark (and others),
Some great advice.
I just had my "smart" meter installed today actually.
My "old" one was very interesting to watch - the spinning dial gave you a great indication just how much electricity you were using, or producing. When someone in the turned on the oven, or put on the washing machine - it was interesting to see the effect on power consumption. It really makes you aware of your families energy usage (and wastage).
I just had a look at the "new smart meter" - since it was installed - at 1.30pm today, it says I have used 1.2kw but produced 1.4kw.
If my bill came now, I would be .2kw in credit - 60c x .2 = 12cents.
In reality, my bill should be worked out - the fair way - being:
PRODUCED 1.4kw @ .60c = 84cents
USED 1.2kw @ 20c = 24cents
Therefore, my bill SHOULD be 84 - 24 = 60 cents in credit - NOT 12c as will be the case.
That is a big difference!!!!!
Is that how the bill is read???
At the end of the billing period - used less produced?
Is the weighting factor of .60c (here in Vic) calculated prior to the cost of electricity used?
Interesting.
I know I'm getting a bit pedantic - but we should be told exactly how electricity is charged.
Everyone I spoke to prior to my purchase did not know the finer details. (or said they weren't sure as the legislation was changing) I think this was just a cover up for their own ignorance.
Looking forward to hearing others comments again.
(I would like to go and watch my power meter spinning backwards - can't now - dumb "smart meter"!)
Cheers all.

Trevor
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby markd » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:56 pm

Hi Trevor,

What you are talking about is being paid for the gross amount you produce rather than net. In all states apart from the ACT there is a net feed in tarrif that applies. You are correct in how unfair that is - I share the view. I think Energy Matters ran a campaign on this very subject a few months ago intending to put so many signatories to a petition to Parliament. It is an argument that should not go away - I think if govts are going to be fair dinkum about the technology (and its advantages) they will eventually need to introduce gross feed-in tariffs.

ps I agree with you about the disc going in reverse - far better than a flashing red light on the meter that supposedly does different things according to changes in current - buggered if I can work that one out....

Mark
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Re: Feed in tariffs and payments

Postby Daryl » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:34 am

Hi Trevor,

Don't fear. You will be paid the full 60c for every kWh that your smart meter reads (although not yet because the legislation hasn't come into effect yet - expect it by about December). The 60c in credit that you calculated is correct. They will pay you full feed-in price for every kWh that they take from you, and you pay the lower price for every kWh that you take from them.

The confusion is between net and gross feed in tariffs. With the current net system, you get paid the feed-in rate (e.g. 60c) for all of the electricity that you feed into the grid. With the gross system that we all want, you get paid the feed-in rate for all of the electricity that your panels produce, including the amount that you yourself use. You would then pay the lower rate for all of the electricity that you use, whether it comes from the power company or your panels. I hope that clears it up, although it is bloody confusing.

Also, Origin Energy have said that not only will they roll over any credit you generate, as required by the legislation, they will actually write you a cheque if you ask for it. It is a good gesture, and I hope other power companies match this.

Cheers, Daryl.
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