Smashed panel replacement

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Smashed panel replacement

Postby Icarus » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:42 pm

Hi all ,
Three months ago one of my 210 watt Sanyo/Pannasonic panels ( Vmp 41.3 , Imp 5.09 amp , Voc 50.9 ) was smashed by maybe a soccer ball I say that as we live next to a soccer field .
I contacted my installer but they have been really slow to get out even to just disconnect the panel .
I covered it with clear builders plastic and it only dropped about 100watts but all the really heavy rain recently must have got in and shorted it as that string of panels is now only producing 50 % of normal .

The 210 watt hit are no longer made but Panasonic do make a 240 watt HiT ( Vpm 43.7 , Ipm 5.51 amp ,Voc 52.2 ) the same size , but these are no longer CeC approved and they cost $510 .

The installer needs to find out if the string is wired in series or parallel as this will affect what can be done .
I like this installer as he is technically very knowledgeable and does good work but this taking to long .

Opinions please on whether the panel can be replaced ? installer says slotting different voltage panels in a no no , generally but it can be done with optimisers .
I guess i just want some technical info on the options I may have to go to another installer .
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby davidg » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:34 pm

Icarus wrote:The 210 watt hit are no longer made but Panasonic do make a 240 watt HiT ( Vpm 43.7 , Ipm 5.51 amp ,Voc 52.2 ) the same size

near enough.

Clowncorp is only relevant if you want to claim STC's seeing as they were approved they are so to speak "safe" using one of them will do the job, I'd suggest.
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby Icarus » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:44 pm

yes davidg the panels were certified but panasonic could not be bothered to re certify them .
So you think the specs are close enough for it to slot straight in ? , because my installer thinks not he is worried about voltage mismatch .
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby Privatteer » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:33 pm

What inverter do you have and how many panels?
If the panels are a single series string into its own input on the inverter the main thing is to match or exceed the existing current output of the other panels. A few volts higher will not matter unless you are right on the limits of the inverter.

Even if you had parallel strings the voltage difference is that small I would say its in the tolerance of the natural variation between the old panels. It would only come into consideration if you had to replace multiple panels.

Keeping too the same tech ie monocrystalline and polycrystalline will also be a benefit so that the replacement perform similarly under different conditions.
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby davidg » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:33 am

Icarus wrote:my installer thinks not he is worried about voltage mismatch .


I'd go with that, the certification is pretty irrelevant.

Here's a thought and a bit of joking around at the sametime.

Do you think that simply because the certification issued by the CEC for which a great deal of money is paid, that the panel suddenly becomes dangerous or simply does not meet the compliance it did lets say the day before it expired, the rules for compliance do not change or have not changed enough to get all twisted up in knot about it.

The compliance is partly about fire rating, they met it before the compliance expired they still meet it even when the extortion fee is no longer paid but you cannot claim any STC's for it, the other reason for the "compliance fee". It's supposed to be also for a certain STD that a panel is supposed meet, but seeing some of the rubbish on the market, I'd suggest that is not accurate.
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby Icarus » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:43 am

Privatteer wrote:What inverter do you have and how many panels?

I have a SMA 5000 TL with 24 panel in two strings of 12 , I think each string is wired as 4 lots of 3 in parallel , but that is to be checked by the installer .
The only time the inverter is really pushed is in the middle of Summer at midday .
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby Icarus » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:51 am

davidg ,
I am not worried about CEC , just whether I could slot that panel in with no effects . Ive done some research and some say you can you can depending on series or parallel , the installer is not so sure .
I need some qualified electrical opinion to explain why so I know if the installer is right or not .
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby davidg » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:27 am

Icarus wrote:davidg ,
I am not worried about CEC , just whether I could slot that panel in with no effects .

If I was doing the job it is what I would do, as it maintains output and is unlikely to have any issues.
If you want a G'Tee, can't give you one, not doing the job.
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby Privatteer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:42 pm

I just threw the details given into the SMA calculator I have installed.
Assuming its the SMA 5000 TL-20.
Quick search of panels found Sanyo HIP-210NHE1 (03/2006) that match given specs.

2 Series strings of 12 exceeds voltage limits considerably.

Best case scenario appears to be 1x8 on one input and 2x8 on another.
Alternatively 2x6 on each input could have been used but it puts the voltage pretty low.

Personally I would change the panel to the one mentioned and just ensure its on a 1x8 string. However that is just my opinion and you have to work with the installer that is responsible.
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Re: Smashed panel replacement

Postby Icarus » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:50 am

Hi privateer
I took a screen shot of what the inverter is doing . You can see the string with the failed panel .
The trick is convincing the installer to go with that panel , he is working on other solutions using an optimizer on the some other panel to balance the voltage/amps which is okay but is taking so long .
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