Wind Gen/alt connections

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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby harrydiculous » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:58 pm

I was going to ring Century tomorrow and ask for those specs. However, I managed to jag these on a google around :-

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/con ... 41a_hr.pdf

So, they give various "C" ratings for the same battery.

Regarding cable length. The three metres, if doubled, won't make it. Also, I can see problems getting circuit breakers to suit double cables. Plus, I'm reluctant to spend more money (regardless of how much fun all this is) on the 120mm^2 if I decide to "repurpose" the current one and put it all down to experience.

(Do I need cuircuit breakers for both cables?)

Thanks

EDIT - I just thought I'd measure the diameter in case the supplier of the cable made a mistake & I might be able to return it. Well, it seems he did. I just measured the diameter and the cable is 13.4mm (not including insulation, of course). That would be 141 mm^2. :D

EDIT2 - Picture just in case you thought "Hang on; this bloke's having us on." :lol:

ImageIMGP4691 by jibbonpoint, on Flickr
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby davidg » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:38 am

harrydiculous wrote:So, they give various "C" ratings for the same battery.

Yes thats what I used for the charge voltage, maximum current x 4 as you have 4 batteries in parallel, for off-grid purposes nowadays the best one to use is the C10 rating for discharge.

harrydiculous wrote:Regarding cable length. The three metres, if doubled, won't make it. Also, I can see problems getting circuit breakers to suit double cables.

That link to the fuse switch I gave would be able to support double lugs. #just saying

harrydiculous wrote:(Do I need cuircuit breakers for both cables?)

According to AS4509 yes, also if you don't, you really protect the cable and thats the core reason for it, circuit protection.

harrydiculous wrote:EDIT - I just thought I'd measure the diameter in case the supplier of the cable made a mistake & I might be able to return it. Well, it seems he did. I just measured the diameter and the cable is 13.4mm (not including insulation, of course). That would be 141 mm^2.

Um, NO, does not work that way. "Pi R squared" for each individual strand and then the number of strands added together gives the you the mm2 area of the cable, or read the printing on the cable sheath, assuming it has any, which I hope it has. To give you a rough idea XLPE 95mm2 cable is approx 20mm in diameter with sheaths (Double insulated).

Which is what I've just used on a system for the main cables from the battery pack to the Selectronic 7.5kW inverter on the current SPS install, via double pole 250A DC circuit breaker.
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby harrydiculous » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:25 am

Thanks davidg. Nothing on the sheath. Single insulated. I measured across the wire & didn't include the insulation in the measurement.

At a quick glance, I thought that I could count the "wires" just for the exercise. The "strands" are just over 0.3mm. A bit hard to count the lot. :o


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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby jaahn » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:06 am

Hi Harry :D
Just to clarify what David is saying about the wire square area. You have measured the wire 'bundle' diameter to calculate the area. However that includes air spaces between the wire. The air does not conduct any current, it is only the copper which is useful :geek: So that is what should be used for the rated area.

My suggestion would be this. Will you use the full rated output of your inverter. Perhaps you only need to use, say half of it, and the rest of the power is only for starting motors etc. This is momentry and so the wire you have may be satisfactory for normal use. Just a suggestion to get you going. As you go along you might like to upgrade to heavier wire.

You can measure the voltage drops over the wires, terminal to terminal to see what you are loosing when a heavy load is going. Make up some long leads for your multimeter to do this. Measuring voltage there is very little current flowing so it is accurate to use long leads for that but only that.

AS for making up some connections. The electrical industry has invented hundred of terminals and connectors to do most every job. Google a wholesale catalogue and look at what is available to suit your situation. Perhaps the ebay sellers may not show what you want but they are readily available where your local electrician shops I am sure, certainly in Newcastle, or online.

The variation of the voltage from your inverter is normal too. The mains power has a tolerance too, "Standards Australia issued AS 60038 in 2000 with 230 volts as the nominal voltage with a +10%, -6% range". It will vary with the load and perhaps for other reasons.
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby harrydiculous » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:41 am

I really appreciate the help I've had here. It's been a lifelong ambition to develop an alternative energy system. Been too busy making a living to indulge. And then started to use what I had lying around instead of planning properly. The big mistake was the 12 volt inverter, instead of the 24 volt. It's not as though I hadn't done research; I knew that the wiring would be more expensive, I just didn't check how much.

I couldn't possibly sell the Inverter second hand with the RF noise coming from it. I like to sleep at night.

The big current draw are the lathe (750 watt, lots of stop/start) & washing machine. I have run these two together. I'll check the amps output next time the washing is on and run the lathe at the same time.

Ultimately, though. I'm going to have to decide on this Inverter.

Thanks again
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby davidg » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:27 am

harrydiculous wrote:The big mistake was the 12 volt inverter, instead of the 24 volt. It's not as though I hadn't done research; I knew that the wiring would be more expensive, I just didn't check how much.

In fact if you do decide to change the inverter to a better or higher battery voltage one at some stage, avoid 24VDC as well. Go for a minimum of 48VDC the battery currents will stay at much more realistic levels for one and the range of options appearing on the market for the majority of small systems are currently aimed at this battery voltage, most major Lithium battery pack manufacturers are using this voltage at the moment although there are 120VDC on the market or are planned as well, for bigger systems. I think you will see voltages up round 400VDC to 480VDC appear as well but these would be used for larger 3 phase implementations and have been used in the past, that's where I'd go. They have certainly been used in the past, higher voltage installations drastically reduce current demands through cable which in turn reduces the need for large mm2 cables, allows longer cable runs if needed with less voltage and so on.

harrydiculous wrote:I couldn't possibly sell the Inverter second hand with the RF noise coming from it. I like to sleep at night.
This is common with low cost and in particular modified sine wave inverters. Proper RF Filtering would resolve it. You could add ferrite core/s to the AC output that should help, although I can't tell you how many turns you would need to put through the core/s.

harrydiculous wrote:The big current draw are the lathe (750 watt, lots of stop/start) & washing machine. I have run these two together.
If that's the highest current draw then just use the cable without doubling it. The start currents are momentary and should not cause a problem.
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby harrydiculous » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:48 pm

davidg- I might decide to fit a Hybrid type unit described above. If you are interested in doing the install, perhaps you could PM your details. I'm on the South Coast of NSW.

Tah!
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby harrydiculous » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:03 am

Fittings machined to replace the common spade connector. It' removes the constriction between the cable & inverter screw fitting.

The smaller one is drilled & tapped to M10. The small spiggot on the end inbserts into a recess on the inverter to connect completely with the unit. It replaces knobs & nuts completely on the inverter. There are two tapped M4 holes.

The larger unit will have the cable directly soldered into it and then screwed flush with the fitted smaller unit on the inverter.

Problem with the M4 chosen is that the holes needed to be exactly on the prescribed radius between the inner diameter & the outer. The drill wandered if this was not so. M3 would have been a better choice.

Also, errors produced early reduced the number of screws to 2, which, I feel, will be fine anyway.

I probably should have made up a template but for only two I thought I'd take the risk. Copper, though, is difficult to machine.

ImageIMGP4699 by jibbonpoint, on Flickr

ImageIMGP4698 by jibbonpoint, on Flickr

ImageIMGP4697 by jibbonpoint, on Flickr

I'll now make up something less complex for the battery end.

Onward----
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby davidg » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:40 pm

A thought for the future, you clamp them together beforehand. then you drill pilot holes to the size required for tapping of the part going to have threads in it. Finish the other part by drilling out to the size required for the bolts, use brass bolts or if suitable simply drill all the way through and use brass nuts and bolts, BTW brass is good for this type of job. All good, things line up quite nicely #just saying. :D

What's needed for the batteries depends on the type of terminals.
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Re: Wind Gen/alt connections

Postby harrydiculous » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:46 am

Yep. That's actually what I was trying to do, davidg. But I was a bit slack in the lining up. Copper is not good stuff to machine. I needed to discard two parts because, during tapping of the thinner bits, the 10mm tap ran off & screwed on skewed. I overcame that by drilling & tapping in the Lathe from the rod. Tapping consisted of ; half a turn x 3. then back off to cut the chips. Then every two procedures, remove tap completely to clean. Otherwise the tap binds and there's a chance of breaking it in the part. The longer section kept the tap straight. Then parting off the two parts from that. Parting off the parts was an exercise in patience.

Yep. Brass would be the go. The copper was hanging around so I thought I'd give it a go.

For the battery, the bolt there is only 8mm and I've a larger diameter copper rod to use. Plus experience.

I'll change the screws. It was what was convenient at the time.

As a matter of interest, I checked the net to see what coolant/lubricant to use. It came up milk/butter. Yep!

Well, that wasn't going to happen.

WD40 & engine oil used.

What good has come of this? I've now an excuse to buy a Rotary Table. 8-)

I've got to finish installing the cables this week. Our resident Complaints Department keeps talking about something called a "Garden." :roll:
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