Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby Tracker » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:56 pm

jackatwo wrote:....I feel I need to give this manufacture a kick in the butt some times

I am surprised that you can make that observation, and also that you have asked for a Cct Diagram..

My experience with ALL these devices is that they will give NOTHING away.. no service Details or Technical detail.
It's actually against consumer law, but when dealing with Chinese manufacturers, it's pretty hard to force them to part with the details..
"Oh, you just send it back for repair"... Yea.... like you can afford to post something that you can barely lift, back and forth to China...???

I was looking at importing an Island inverter, and said that I would need technical information prior to committing.. They just refused and said that the boards can be posted and other hardware is very reliable..

Problem is - we see from the experience with the W7, that dramatic improvements can be made via BETTER design.. (in this case a Toroidal Tfmr.) ie.. it's a poorish design.
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby WALL-E » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:46 pm

I would say it's more a cheap design.
The Chinese know how to improve the design, there is more technology and development in China in hear in Australia. The Chinese just make it as cheap as possible so people will buy it, and they know this!!
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby jackatwo » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:50 pm

@ Andrew
got that diagram and as I am not technically minded I hope its what you need.
I have not imported any 3KW inverters as I considered them to small and am importing the 6 to 18KW only.
I am not able to comment on them BTHREE
the 24volt 3000/9000 is here in Australia with another company and are fairly cheap, they are also in Melbourne.
I have had the 1KW and 6KW and find there are no serious problems problems with either
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby jackatwo » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:52 am

@ Tracker
I feel that if I am to import and sell an item then I am also entitled to to have the drawings with it so that if there is a fault I am able to have a technician repair it.

I would upload to here what they sent me yesterday, but the forum page will only allow 100k/b and this upload is 960k/b
I would gladly pass this onto Andrew as he is the one testing it.
I agree 100 percent about returns, you would have to have rocks in your head to return some thing so heavy. the costs far exceed the amount what one pays for specially as they will charge you to also send it back.

I keep telling the Chinese manufactures to upgrade there products to make them good as we Australians do not mind paying that extra cost for some thing that's not going to break down.
peace of mind is better , specially as a owner relies on the inverter to power up a home. not many people can afford a backup one.

@Wall
The Chinese are excellent copiers of any thing, they remind me of the lat 60,s when we used to call the Japanese products Plastic **** , the Chinese now have there turn in the world.
yes they do know how to make better products, but they seem to have the thinking that cheaper is what every one wants.
I know of one importer that negotiated a 40 foot container of jackhammers and screwed the Chinese down in price,
so they made some parts out of plastic instead of steel like they normally did.
the importer on testing them found they lasted 20 minutes then fell apart
he still has that load of jackhammers, can not and will not sell them.
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby Andrew_electrix » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:06 pm

Thanks for the input guys!!

Jackatwo: I haven’t seen any personal messages yet, thank you for getting hold of the circuit diagram I will PM you my email address so you can send it to me…
I’m in Adelaide SA I’m happy to organise something with you directly regarding further testing/improvements

Not sure if I mentioned but I am a qualified electrical engineer, I have designed electronics that is being professionally manufactured in quantity.
Even so the modification of this inverter has been a fair learning experience for me, as there is more going on than meets the eye with these units, so some level of expertise is required.
More often there is just no reason to improve a design if sales are OK.

So I would disagree with the comment about the Chinese making things as cheap as possible
Often the difference between a great product and a very average one, is really not that much.
Testing -> refinement and Testing -> refinement and yet more Testing -> refinement, leads to small incremental changes that make all the difference.

That why when you buy a BMW or Mercedes which has gone though years of testing and been driven millions of test km’s (or SMA inverter – gee they drive well :) ) you are assured that reliability, ride, handling, comfort will be second to none.
But guess what both BMW and Mercedes are sourcing SOME of the components for there products from China for assembly in other countries.

If these inverters are being made in 100’s or 1000’s then I don’t think the toroidal transformer and other magnetic components would add much to the price, perhaps only 10-15%.
There is definitely no more materials (copper, steel ect) in the modified unit as compared to the stock one.
As mentioned previously there is probably still a few other changes that could be made to improve it further…
However the much improved product could then command a much higher sale price than the 10-15% cost increase, making more money!!

So I totally agree with the comment about continual improvement - I for one don’t mind paying a-bit more if I know what I’m getting is rock solid!!

Regards

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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby jackatwo » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:09 pm

@ Andrew
I am going to open a temporary email address for you to send a email, this I will delete after you email and I can then give you my real one. powerstar7@clickatec.com

Here is some answers to some of your tests, sent by the manufacture
it looks like I am not going to get the source code and I can understand that as I am sure you can too

1 The max charging current for 6048E model is 60Amp, I am wondering why your engineer found it is 70A, did he test it?
As there is a current switch, you can switch to the minimum position first, and gradually increase the current(thus charge load), this way, the generator will stay stable, pls try it and let me know the result.

2 Since the 26A breaker jump, the max output power from generator is 240*26=6240W, while our charging wattage is around 3KW, if the load hooked up exceeds 3240W, the breaker will jump.
Can you confirm me the power of the load?

3 There is filter inductor in our control PCB already, if you want to customize the inverter to suit generator, we can add another filter, and widen the AC input freq range from 40Hz to no limit, and we can also add a rotary switch for u to manual control the charging stage. But we will not charge u research cost if you can meet our MOQ.
About the source code, sorry we have no plan to share it.

well I hope what they wrote helps you as to me , I didn't understand a bit of it
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:57 am

Andrew and Jackatwo, you can use the private message and email directly by clicking on the other person's name (link to profile) in a post, so no need for public temporary emails etc.
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby Tracker » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:15 am

jackatwo wrote:As there is a current switch, you can switch to the minimum position first, and gradually increase the current(thus charge load),

I do wonder what that "Switch" is..
The only user-accessible switch is the "Battery Type" switch, and I presume that it controls the CPU, and hence that any change might involve a CPU re-start .. ie.. STOP and START..
ie That would not likely fix the issue with that generator being jumped on..
In any case, I am unaware of how it varies the CURRENT..
There are NO other switches that I can see that could "Adjust" anything..
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby Tracker » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:32 am

Andrew_electrix wrote:.....However the much improved product could then command a much higher sale price than the 10-15% cost increase, making more money!!.....

OR -- adding that 15% increase to the cost price could make a product a real LEADER in the market, and thus dramatically increase production rates..

Here we are talking about something called a W7, and folk will be watching with vague interest..
Imagine if in the next post, we read ".. and the engineers have redesigned the device incorporating all the recommendations.."

I would suspect that there would be a few folk keen to check them out..

The one common follow-on from Installing-PV, is... "..How can I be self sufficient, OR at least, be partly protected from black-out...?"

We do recognise some facts of AC-Life..
"THEY" are going to charge far more for electricity.
"THEY" will not be increasing any generation.. (Because the Greens will always find fault with any new generators)
Our populations will rise as more boats arrive, with folk seeking free electricity (and free everything else)

SO - Black / Brown outs will be more of a norm in the future.. :roll:

Oh! I'm such a cynic... :evil: .... :!:
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Re: Powerstar W7 Inverter modification

Postby jackatwo » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:36 pm

@ Andrew:
i got your email back with the following >>>Mail quota exceeded<<<
might pay to empty your mail box a bit
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