Energy Matters Forums

[KymoGen1]

Hello,
My name is Jason Ballash. I am one of the co-founders of a newly formed group named KymoGen. We have recently designed a unique style of wave energy generator. We are very excited about how this system will provide clean, renewable energy to homes and communities that are near water. I am posting on these forums to gain awareness of our project, and to discuss any thoughts or suggestions on this project as we move forward.

We are now entering the early prototype phase, and will possibly be using crowd funding to make this project a reality. We are very interested in your feedback throughout this project. If you would like to know more about the KymoGen, you can check out our initial press release below to learn more. Thank you all for your support.

http://www.prlog.org/12405424-company-formed-to-generate-power-from-waves.html

[davidg]

Good luck regulations in Victoria would almost certainly NOT allow such products for personal or private use, along any or near any shore lines, councils though-out Victoria manage all shore lines they cannot be privately owned. There would be major issue with such a product.

A few other questions, what is the environmental impact on local underwater aquatic life, seals, birds, etc. How would such a device cope with being used as floating platforms for marine creatures?
How do you ensure they do not break free from the mooring, stop marine growth on them and so on?

I'll be very interested to see how those issues might be overcome as the idea appears easy enough the others I'm not so sure for Australia anyway.

[Smurf1976]

As a place to do it in Australia, I'd be looking at Tasmania or South Australia firstly since there's a lot more support at all levels for renewable energy in those states than elsewhere.

[davidg]

I'd be looking at Tasmania

Tassy has hydro, but you never know as there already limiting Solar installations with excessive paper warfare and special rules, which I find amazing as Hydro and Solar should work really well together both being renewable and all that .........

[KymoGen1]

Hello all,
Just wanted to post an update on the KymoGen project for you all. We have been working really hard to get this project off the ground and into the fabrication stage, and we should start building our prototype in the spring. We are going to post our project on Kickstarter in a few days. This will allow us to build the prototype with the best components possible, and also support the in water testing phase of development. Here is a link to our most recent press release. http://www.prlog.org/12431296-kymogen-wave-energy-moving-forward.html. Please feel free to contact us with any questions or comments about the project, as we welcome any and all feedback.
Thanks,
Jason Ballash
KymoGen

[Gordon-Loomberah]

Hi Jason, can you explain what the advantages are over the already operating Carnegie system in WA?
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/carnegi ... lant-27462

[KymoGen1]

One of the main advantages the KymoGen has over some of the other wave energy generators out there is its size. Our prototype unit will only be 8 foot by 8 foot, making this unit highly portable in comparison to other alternatives. Our unit can be loaded onto a standard trailer and launched at any launch ramp. Its compact size also greatly reduces production costs. After looking at the Carnegie CETO5, i think it is a fantastic system, that is going in the right direction to make this technology a mainstay. We are trying to simplify a similar approach, by housing the majority of the mechanism internally. Having moving parts underwater mean more wear by the marine environment. Our unit would attach to a standard concrete mooring buoy, lowering the cost of install. In order for the KymoGen to be feasible, it needs to pay itself back in the shortest amount of time possible. Keeping manufacturing costs down, as well as installation costs, are just two of the ways we plan to make this happen.

[Tracker]

One of the main advantages the KymoGen has over some of the other wave energy generators out there is its size. Our prototype unit will only be 8 foot by 8 foot, ....... Our unit would attach to a standard concrete mooring buoy....... it needs to pay itself back in the shortest amount of time possible. Keeping manufacturing costs down, .......

I apologize first, but have to say that ANYTHING intended for ocean usage will be expensive to maintain..

I invested in one project , touted to be "World Leading Innovation" and that is where it stopped..
I suspect the "Inventor" now has a large and paid for home and really doesn't care any more..

So what you envisage is an adaption of a hand dynamo, like used in an emergency radio..
Just jerk the chain and get the top spinning faster and faster..

You speak of a small and compact size, but in order to get the mechanical LIFT from the wave power, the floatation will need to remain ON the surface and not get dragged under..
I can hear Gordo's mind, working out the formula.... flotation device displaces X-M3 of water, creating a potential energy of Y-kW of energy, when lifted Z-Mtrs.. There just has to be a simple formula..

The thing that I wonder about is the Spinning-Top effect (whats that spinning inertia called) -- gyroscopes etc.etc. that will want to keep the float in a stable plane, preventing it from just rolling over the wave, and thus creating massive drag that in a heavy sea might become destructive..
( Problem solved by floating the mechanism in a gimbal withing the float..

Cynically, I do see it as yet another venture, which when it fails, will leave the tax-payer to pay for the removal, after the P/L Company has been liquidated.. and I make no comment about home ownership..

I had wondered about a similar device, but made like an accordion squeeze-box..
Completely waterproof, and the dynamo between the opposing faces, being squeezed as the pressure head of the wave passes over.. Nothing to see.. nothing to be hit by small boats..
..
.

[Gordon-Loomberah]

Without knowing anything about the operation of this particular unit, I would think that the energy available from waves for a floating device would be something like equivalent to the effective volume of the device that moves up and down * average vertical travel per second * G
Having done no reading up on how they work, I'd guess that the volume is equivalent to that much water moving up and down for the purposes of extracting energy, ie, the force applied to the generating bits would be ~equivalent to the same amount of water movement through a turbine. So say it's 2.5m diameter circle by 0.5m deep, so 2.5m^3 X say 2m vertical travel once every 10 sec as a wave passes (1 metre up + one down) * 9.81 * efficiency of the device

or 2500 * 2 /10 * 9.81 * ~0.5eff(guess)

so I'd expect perhaps a bit over 2kW, or more with bigger waves... but I'm not sure if that's really the correct way to look at it, and I could be completely wrong

Re: 'personal use', this isn't the sort of thing that would be easy to carry around, and places you could use it would be extremely limited- there arent too many suitable anchor points around the coast! Boat moorings tend to be in protected waters, where there is minimal wave action.

I wonder how the proposed cost compares with 10 * 250W PV panels, which would be a lot more convenient to move around and set up?

[Tracker]

Thanks GG...

I knew you could be relied upon to come up with some maths..

The device seems to be a floating box, with a dynamo/flywheel and a chain/cable to a heavy block..
The box floats over a wave, causing the pull on the flywheel on the upstroke and will obviously have a frictionless powered "Rewind" for when the box slides down the back side of the wave..

Ignore the maths of the energy side of things - look at the maths of the device..

Assuming there is NO WEIGHT in the FLOAT and flywheel assembly, and the maximum displacement will be
6.25xHeight (say GG's 1/2M) = 3.125M2 or approx 3100 Kg of potential... "LIFT" ( 1kg / lTR )

So, the concrete block will have to be at least double that if it is not to drag ( NO - I have never designed a mooring ) and I would actually suspect that it would need to be more like 4 times, so I would like to see someone install something like a 2.5SqM float and a 12ooo-Kg moorings, from the back of their tinny

Assuming GG's maths is correct, the "Power" of 2kW, will only exist at the peak of the wave and thus about every 10Secs.. During the rest of the time, the Fly-Wheel will be slowing, waiting to be kicked along again..
So if my geriatric maths is vaguely correct, I wonder if you might get about 200W constant power...

The FLOAT will not be ideal.. it WILL have to sink a bit to exhibit pull on the tether..
( I could not even try and imagine what the lost power during sinking would be...

I have to say that I wonder if the inventor also came up with the Solar Cube..

Sorry but once bitten-twice shy for my funds.. No doubt there will be many who will kick the can, because they see the waves and just accept that "There is POWER in them thare hills"

now , did I get be basic maths right..

Now what you could do is design a Bee-Hive, that each time a wave passes, it squeezes honey from successive sections..
..
.