Energy Matters Forums

[acgmarketing]

Has anyone views on the new Legion Solar plug in product? I came upon it while stumbling around Kickstarter in the tech section and then visited their webpage to find out more. And no I have absolutely nothing to do with the company or product just see it as an interesting tech which could have good application to me.

It’s a plug-in PV product with a controller which monitors in house energy use and “prevents” the microinverters from producing any more power than what is being used inside the house. Can be plugged in or can be hard wired. The controller requires grid voltage to trigger the microinverters to operate (anti-islanding). Also has modules to allow battery connection and also off-grid application (not of interest to me).

They claim to be usable in Australia without approvals due to the anti-islanding and non-feed in nature of their setup. I searched for the product in the forums with no success so figured I’d open it up to a new discussion.

Anyone come across this product or have thoughts on applicability to Australia? (Shipping including panels is ridiculous but shipping of control modules and micro-inverters using local panels seems doable with in my case about a 1 year payback).

[qed]

No
Letting people plug generators into power points is a bad idea.

1 its not on the cec approved list so no cash back from the guv
2 the AS/NZ standards have a bit to say about power generators and how they are connected.
3 your power distributor needs to approve any generators connected to there network.

why would you bother connecting up sumthing dodgy when you can get the guv to pay for a large part of a approved system and make cash on the power you do not use

[acgmarketing]

Ta. I’m aware of those concepts but keen to hear of specifics to this product.

In terms of why ... I’ve already got a system generating feedin tarrifs. The point of this system would be to allow the main system to feed all of its generated power to the grid rather than just the surplus beyond that self-used within the house...

Did you see the detail of how this product works? (Doesn’t have to be plugged in - could be hard wired at meter box).

[Gordon-Loomberah]

However it works, I'm sure it is illegal to connect to the mains in your house.
It certainly is not ok to use without the relevant Australian approvals, no matter what they claim.

[acgmarketing]

Thanks Gordon and that’s where my assumption initially lay as I tried to work through if this particular product were different in any regard. I asked the developers how they felt it would work in an Australian context. Their reply is effectively that this system is an “off-grid” product with “on-grid” benefits due to: (a) its ability to connect after the meter box (but is that any different to any other inverter?); and (b) its ability to never produce any more power than is instantaneously consumed within the house from grid supply thus never exporting any power to the grid.

I don’t have access to the full AS:NZS3000:2018 but is it possible that the crux here comes down to what is defined as being an “off-grid” vs “on-grid” generator/inverter and whether it is linked to ability or not to feed supply out from the premises? An alternative could be is there a direct link between the CEC approved inverter list and AS:NZS3000:2018 requirements (ignoring entirely inability to claim credits which clearly does require CEC approved list status).

Just in case anyone is worried - I’m not wanting to be a cowboy here and install anything for the fun of it but do truly want to understand if this product is something new and different which could be used under Australian requirements (I’ve seen the rash of plugin inverters from other places with their death plugs and attempts to allow DIY installation to gain credits and don’t in anyway suggest they are appropriate but this one struck me as being something a fair bit different to those ones).

[Gordon-Loomberah]

Their reply is factually incorrect. If it is connected to the house mains, ie the grid, then it is not "off-grid".
The ability to have zero exports is commonly available in other brands of grid connected inverters.
Zero export does not equal off-grid!

Unless the people trying to raise money on Kickstarter have funds for testing and Australian standards approvals, it will remain illegal to connect to the house, no matter how many claims they make in an attempt to make up their own definitions.

[acgmarketing]

Thanks Gordon - agree it is sounding difficult to rationalise the product description with ability to install in Australia. The most recent response I received includes ... The definition of a grid tied electrical system is: "a system which links to the mains to feed excess capacity back to the local mains electrical grid. ". It then goes on to say that because this system is set up to not be able to do that it is therefore not a “grid-tied” system ...

I wonder from where that “definition” is derived. Is there any such definition or similar/equivalent in the AS/NZS3000:2018?

[Gordon-Loomberah]

I'm pretty sure they have made their own definitions up! In some areas of Australia you are not allowed to feed electricity into the grid, as the local transmission network is not up to the task, yet all inverters connected to the grid are not defined as off-grid.

[acgmarketing]

Is there some central definition of inverter within the AS/NZ3000:2018 to which I could refer to help direct the conversation with the developers?

[qed]

Look up Electricity Converters