Big electricity price increase

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Big electricity price increase

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:07 pm

Now there is even more incentive to maximise the use of your own solar energy, and minimise imports-
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Warpspeed » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:46 am

This is going to eventually kill the popular grid tie inverter.

They will keep hiking up the price and lowering FIT, and place even greater restrictions on maximum solar panel size so the utilities (and shareholders) can go on making an ever increasing profit every single year.
The rules will keep on changing so you cannot ever win, its a rigged game.

Your best bet is to stay right away from grid tie, and build an off grid system where there are no imposed limits to system sizing. If you play their game, you are restricted by their rules.
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Jimbo007 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:17 pm

It won't kill the grid tie inverter. they will have a higher utilisation in offgrid mini systems.
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Warpspeed » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:44 pm

It might, if you have to feed back ten times as much energy as you draw from the grid, and still cannot financially break even.
Complete off grid operation, where you feed nothing at all into the grid starts to look attractive, especially if battery costs really start to come down.

If you consume 10Kwh per day, but need to feed 100Kwh per day back into the grid during daylight hours (if the feed in tariff is only one tenth) you could go off grid requiring maybe one tenth of the solar panel area to do it.

The only thing stopping that right now is high battery cost.
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Jimbo007 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:18 pm

Agreed. Grid ties might become more expensive but I think there is enough people in the know who understand they can be used in mini off grid systems to keep them viable.
As you say storage is the biggest problem at present with lithium systems seeming to be the best option for now.
Ladt year when I retuned from overseas, i was unable to restart my gas hot water system as during my absence, the gas company replaced the meter and the entire system filled with air. After a couple of months, an inspector came to check the meter and I related my problem to him. He was most helpful and offered to bleed to system for me explaining that in a previous life he had been a gas fitter and electrician. He asked me not to say anything as he was not permitted to do this menial work any more.
On the way back through the house he notices my invetter setup and asked was the DC 240 volts. I replied no and he had no further interest in it. I asked him if it was permitted to go off grid in the city and he replied there was no legislation against it but it was being discussed as the electricity companies were concerned about losing customers.
He basically gave it the green light but added that it might be prudent to do it earlier rather than later in case the rules were changed.
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:06 am

Jimbo007 wrote:Grid ties might become more expensive but I think there is enough people in the know who understand they can be used in mini off grid systems to keep them viable.

They're also the basis of an AC coupled off-grid system/s.

Jimbo007 wrote:As you say storage is the biggest problem at present with lithium systems seeming to be the best option for now.

I'm not sure lithium is the best way to go for off-grid, even though I have installed and built quite a few packs, time is really the thing that will tell. Lead Acid even though less efficient is still hard to beat. Of course if you have the money NiFe has made a comeback and even though less efficient compared to lead acid, however if the current versions are as long lived as the original versions then they may be worth the money spend. Installing more PV is a pretty simple way to offset lower efficiencies of recharging over longer periods, or mixing battery type together could provide benefits that can make batteries work really well.

Jimbo007 wrote:I asked him if it was permitted to go off grid in the city and he replied there was no legislation against it but it was being discussed as the electricity companies were concerned about losing customers.

If this occurs then we well on the way to being an oligarchy. No private corporation in Australia has been allowed to unconditionally compel you to pay for a service they don't provide. Council, State government, federal government well there different stories.

Since the change to water authorities (essentially private corporations now) in Victoria, you don't have to pay for a water services if they are not physically connected to your property anymore. You will not find any mention of this fact online. They REALLY don't want you to know this is the case. However I have in writing by email from the local water authority in our area that in fact we can fully disconnect and they would then not be able to charge us for those service/s any further.

So if you had a mandatory electricity charge in the future that like a water service, I would expect that also like a water service in Vic is remove the actual physical connection from the property altogether then you would not pay. The purely passing your property and that therefore provides a service is complete and utter crapola. When these utility services are under direct ownership and control of government the story is different, however electricity has never been mandatory pay no matter what in Vic, allowing it now would be an election disaster for any government of the day.

Jimbo007 wrote:He basically gave it the green light but added that it might be prudent to do it earlier rather than later in case the rules were changed.

Completely legal and always has been in Vic, there has never been a reason in the past to attempt to make it otherwise. A grid service has always been cheaper than the alternatives in the past.

Once you make a system or service like this, then require it to make sizeable profits that do not go back into the maintaining the system or service and disappear offshore, that must also return excessive salaries and is also fed back to "institutional investors" (not loans) then you make a whole system much more expensive.

PRIVATE corporations in Australia are not allowed to charge for something you have NOT chosen to buy or opted in to from them, this would be a form of SLAVERY, which last time I looked is illegal in Australia.

Optus, Telstra or any Telco or ISP are offering a service in an area if you don't want it you don't pay for it. Simply being there is not a reason to be forced to pay, it is absolutely wrong, period.
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Jimbo007 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:15 pm

Optus, Telstra or any Telco or ISP are offering a service in an area if you don't want it you don't pay for it. Simply being there is not a reason to be forced to pay, it is absolutely wrong, period.


I terminated my Telstra service as it was usually non functional and changed to another ISP in the middle of February this year after trying to resolve the issue for more than two years.
To cut a long story short, they are still billing me despite numerous complaints and threats of litigation for an account with no services on it !
Of course I'm not paying it and they have now suspended my services !? lol
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Jimbo007 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:41 pm

I was fortunate enough to buy my 12 volt 200a/h SLA's for $100 each. They had done no work and just float charged in some huge UPS for a few years.
the first few cycles were a little discouraging but they came to life with a vengeance.
cosidering the supply fee is higher than my actual usage, the combined savings will recoup my costs in no time.
Last year, I used 100 k/w hours of solar and ran the airconditioner almost non stop for both heating and cooling as well as using an induction hotplate for most cooking. used the washing machine, clothes drier and dishwasher all on solar.
Only fridges, freezer, lighting and entertainment equipment were on the grid as I was testing the reliability of the system.
having now doubled my inverter size, same company, I am confident to move the entire house off grid.
I will need some more panels!
The previous set of boards I bought for experimentation will allow for immediate repair in the event of a catastrophic failure and I can repair the failed boards at my leisure.
electricity prices are set to increase something like 30% very soon (if they haven't already) with further increases close behind.
perhaps they really want us all to jump ship so they don't have to make new power plants. They will still charge for using the infrastructure and profit from everyones solar generation. with surplus generation during the day being stored at peoples premises and backfed into the grid at night.
Just my ramblings there...
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby davidg » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:23 pm

How many kWh's did you use from the grid in the same 12 months?
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Re: Big electricity price increase

Postby Jimbo007 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:19 am

davidg wrote:How many kWh's did you use from the grid in the same 12 months?

I'll check in a couple of days when I'm home and let you know.
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