Global Warming or Cooling

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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby zzsstt » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:37 am

The typo claim is actually very doubtful. There was indeed a (Russian?) report several years ago that stated 2350 as the time frame for the glaciers to disappear, but it is my understanding that this was not the source of the data in the IPCC report. The statement by the IPCC that admitted the error in no way mentioned that Russian data, nor in fact did it mention a typo - I am sure that if a simple typo had been the problem they would have said so! The IPCC "apology" actually said that their original statement was not backed up by the "rigorous"science that they normally employ, and that their normal high standards and procedures had not been followed when that section had been written. If the problem was a typo, it would not be expected to be backed up by rigorous science, so it would be unlikely that such a comment would be made in the admission of error!

Doesn't sound like a typo to me!

It is, of course, not the only error that has come to light in the section, now that it has been subject to more scrutiny. The rate of retreat of the glaciers was stated as being very high, and (I have not checked this calculation myself) apparently this was because the average yearly retreat was calculated by dividing the total measured retreat in 121 years, by 21 (rather than 121). Also the claim that the galciers melting would massively reduce the water supply to the subcontinent (and that the Ganges would dry up) is alledgedly not true, as apparently the glaciers only supply 4% of their water. Apparently in the "leaked emails" there is also a conversation where it is stated that the vast majority of the measured retreat of these glaciers happened between the late 1800's and the first quarter of the 1900's, which (if true) casts doubt on many of the other claims about these glaciers. Unfortunately the fact that the "scientists" involved in the IPCC refuse to release their data for public scrutiny makes it hard to confirm one way or the other (it has, of course, been argued that if their data genuinely backed up their "conclusions" they wouldn't be so reticent to publish it!).

Added to this, the IPCC were apparently notified two years ago that the figure in the report was wrong, but chose not to correct it. Then Dr Pachauri (IPCC Chairman) made quite damning statements about the Indian government and its scientists when they published a report questioning the IPCC data.

I find it concerning that after all the supposed reviewing and checking, errors such as these can appear in the final published editions of the IPCC reports. These are massive errors that have apparently gone unnoticed by all the reveiwers and editors, and worse have been included even after they have alledgedly been pointed out as errors. The those who believe the IPCC - or see an opportunity for gain by supporting them - base their publicised opinions on these reports, and use them to justify their actions. In such a situation, the reports should be unbiased, accurate and as accurate as possible. In fact, I doubt that any of those criteria are met!
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby Tracker » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:06 pm

zzsstt wrote:I find it concerning that after all the supposed reviewing and checking, errors such as these can appear in the final published editions of the IPCC reports.


The whole thing stinks..
The FACT that behind the claim of climate-change is the resurrection of a prior attempt to create a WORLD-Govt., and the qualification of Climate-Change has many holes in reality, makes one think that fools like Mr C.rudd , and Penny Wrong, are in it for their own motives.

Self-Interest
.
..
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby Icarus » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:27 pm

"The whole thing stinks..
The FACT that behind the claim of climate-change is the resurrection of a prior attempt to create a WORLD-Govt., and the qualification of Climate-Change has many holes in reality, makes one think that fools like Mr C.rudd , and Penny Wrong, are in it for their own motive."

Yes the illuminati have been very active in this area ever since Adam Weishaupt founded the Bavarian Illuminati went to America killed George Washington and took his place as the first president of the United States , he then set up a system of insiders to work secretly within the govt with the eventual aim of making a one govt world .

They use wars to release massive amounts of psychic energy from the dying of humans which thay feed off (think there really has never been even a decade without some major war since America was founded ) the more violent the death and the longer it takes the more energy released .

Eventually they will have a authority that dictates what seem like policies that should better the world, but will really force impoverished nation states to fight each other ,over what seem like dwindling resouces ,but really are limits imposed by the climate control institute to supposedly bring are world back for the brink of climatic diaster .
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby Tracker » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:51 pm

Icarus wrote:"The whole thing stinks..
The FACT that behind the claim of climate-change is the resurrection of a prior attempt to create a WORLD-Govt., and the qualification of Climate-Change has many holes in reality, makes one think that fools like Mr C.rudd , and Penny Wrong, are in it for their own motive."


You seem to have problems with setting up QUOTES...
You can either go to the passage you want and then "Block It" and then click on "QUOTE" in the top right corner,
or
You can block (Highlight) the text, do a CtrlC, then move back to your new thread and click on QUOTE from the top line of Icons, and then just do a CtrlV for paste..

It is good that we totally agree on Climate Change !
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:30 pm

Please play nice fellas, otherwise I'll need to lock the topic :).

Like I said way back when this thread began, this is a pretty emotional issue.. heck, I've been tempted to dive in dozens of times as both sides of the fence have been quoting "facts" that can be refuted and I've also been dying to get on a soapbox about my own personal views.

But what would it achieve in addressing this very thorny issue?

I just remind myself that these arguments for and against have been echoed on thousands of threads around the Interwebs and their end result is usually the same... frustration, going off on tangents and ad hominem type niggliness :).

I have a feeling we may be heading to that point now, so let's just all take a deep breath before further postings please. However, to everyone's credit, it's taken far longer to get to that point than what I have seen in other similar threads around the place, so kudos to all.

For those of you who have been participating or reading this thread - has any of preceding discussion change your mind one way or another about the topic of climate change?

In regard to those who have posted, I haven't seen anyone who has said "By jove, you're right old chum - I was wrong, you were right, I totally reverse my position on the whole subject; thank you for enlightening me."

I just fear we may all be now tilting at wind turbines here ;)
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby BarKing » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:23 pm

Icarus wrote:"Yes the illuminati have been very active in this area ever since Adam Weishaupt founded the Bavarian Illuminati went to America killed George Washington and took his place as the first president of the United States , he then set up a system of insiders to work secretly within the govt with the eventual aim of making a one govt world................ etc.

That's hilarious Icarus. I particularly like the line about the psychic energy released from people dying in the wars waged. You should write for the Chasers.
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby Icarus » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:38 pm

BarKing wrote:
Icarus wrote:"Yes the illuminati have been very active in this area ever since Adam Weishaupt founded the Bavarian Illuminati went to America killed George Washington and took his place as the first president of the United States , he then set up a system of insiders to work secretly within the govt with the eventual aim of making a one govt world................ etc.

That's hilarious Icarus. I particularly like the line about the psychic energy released from people dying in the wars waged. You should write for the Chasers.


LOL , look it up its "true" for some people and Ive be told even better stuff about reptilian aliens digused as humans who "really " control the world and are just using us as farm animals , just think how many people go missing every year !!!! . oh look t I got take out for dinner tonite Xunas my dear scaly wife, from that new Maccas on earth , mmmm yummo .

Oh and I must admit its not my idea ,but from a book I read by Anton Wilson ages ago .
sleep tight all , lol lol lol
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby zzsstt » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:10 am

It's common for people to need something to believe in, though I'm not really sure why. Maybe they need something to motivate them, or make them feel part of a group? How bizarre the belief system of others seems to ourselves is, I suspect, based mostly on our own belief system. Is one persons belief in scaly aliens running the planet really that much different to anothers belief in a "god" that is roughly man shaped?

Human societies have always had invisible or hidden forces (or gods) that are only fully understood by a select few "priests". Those priests disseminate their knowledge to the masses through a network of lesser priests, lay-priests and writings. And the masses, for their own good, have always had to act or pay tribute to according to messages and signs interpreted for us by those select few "priests", lest some terrible fate befall them.

Of course, in our modern world the concept of "gods" has become less believable now that we have scientists to explain everything and the media to report it.........
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby Joey » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:14 am

Understand your reply Michael , the few posts proceeding it in my option are completely off topic and fuel to totally destroy an interesting thread.
religion and personal crutches /beliefs ( the same thing in my option ) have no place in an energy forum.

In keeping with this topic , I was also wondering where all the die hard outspoken believers of man made global warming/ climate change had vanished too , I doubt they or anyone will have the courage to eat humble pie and admit they had fallen for the worlds greatest scam.
Maybe they are busy fabricating more graphs and figures to restore some much lost credibility.

Personally I think the average person must be living in a cloud of grandeur to even contemplate that humble man has the power to influence something so enormous and as barely understood as Earth.
When someone comes up with earths construction schematic , specifications , tolerances , temp v man since earth was made then I will be happy to learn the facts, the way it stands now we have not proved we can or have made any difference at all , past , present or future.
It's fine to want to know all but why is it so inconceivable for people to just accept that we don't
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Re: Global Warming or Cooling

Postby EnergyMatters » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:58 am

It seems to me that both sides have been busy fabricating stuff (I don't mean in this thread - I mean the "for" and "against" overall) and as it appears the ad hominem type niggliness I referred to will continue in our own humble microcosm of the bigger exchange on the subject, we'll wrap this topic up I think; I fear the debate will only degrade from here.

We'll all meet back here in 50 years time; by then we should know for sure, right? :). I'll be dead, so I'll ask Max to unlock the topic then ;).

For those who aren't familiar with the term "ad hominem" argument and are curious as to what it means, you can learn more about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

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