Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

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Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby electro » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:46 pm

Does anyone know what impact the liberals scrapping the clean energy fund will have on the solar industry. Will this have an effect on STC trading? If so I would expect the average price of a 5kW system would rise approx. $3000, a little concerned for small businesses like ourselves. Is there anything else that will effect the industry?
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby Tracker » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:05 am

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Was it not the case that LABOR, originally set a figure of something like $30, and never implemented it, but it ended up floating at more like $23, and NOW, they say it should be traded at world rates.
Is that not more like five dollars.

Don't hit me with exact figures, but it's clear that LABOR had no idea in the first place, and fooled the world into thinking they were World Leaders.

Like with the insulation industry, there will be victims.. but in my mind, these victims will be victims of Labor.. not the Liberals..

As for the effect on a 5kW system, I think that most folk need to take a reality pill, and look to cover their background power, and not what they can export...
The days of generous FIT. .. are. OVER...

If the government paid $2 for every pie sold, we ALL eat pies, and would stop when the payment disappeared.. :idea:

The existing payments are only there NOW, because of Political, and Legal fears/threats.. IMHO

I do wonder what will happen after the Federal Elections, when States will think... "we don't need to be cautious of Political backlash." And they really can't afford the cost of generous FIT..

For the Industry, the Fact, of higher energy costs, should keep reasonable installations practical..
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby electro » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:01 pm

Thanks for the reply but im after info on the STC component, as in the point of sale discount installers apply to the price of the system on condition of customer assigning the rights to create the certificates over. After all this is where the bulk of the money is made on an install.

Not particularly interested in a political debate. When either party can provide a leader or policy worthy of a vote then ill start listening, at the moment we have neither.

Not bothered about the FIT either, all my systems are designed to a kW usage value so it effects none of my customers anyway.

Merely interested on the effects to the industry. Have emailed local members with no response, just wondering if anyone else had heard whats going on.
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby Tracker » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:32 pm

electro wrote:Thanks for the reply but im after info on the STC component, ....

But, is the STC component not DIRECTLY related to Carbon Trading..
Scrapping the Clean Energy Fund -- WHAT does that mean..
Will it mean that there will be fewer Wind Turbines installed.. Will it mean lower investment in renewable power..

Surely, you can't separate ANY of the parts of the equation... :idea:

electro wrote:Does anyone know what impact the liberals scrapping the clean energy fund will have on the solar industry.


Now you put the word LIBERAL into the statement/question..
I suggested that the OTHER mob has their own way of stuffing up the system..
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/govt-to-set-up-10bn-clean-energy-fund-20110710-1h8ja.html
The federal government will set up a $10 billion fund to invest in clean and renewable energy as part of its carbon pricing package.

The Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC) will be run by an independent but government-appointed chair and a board comprising experts in banking, investment management and renewable energy.

It will invest $10 billion over five years from 2013/14 in businesses seeking funds to get innovative renewable and clean energy proposals up and running.

It will also help existing manufacturers transform to help them meet new demand in the clean energy sector for goods like wind turbine blades and solar panels.


Now, when I read these words... Official Words.... I wonder how you see a link between the fund and the cost of PV Installations, if not via the issue of Carbon Trading..

Are you seeking thoughts or making a statement..? ... :oops:

How do YOU see the whole thing being affected... :?:

Do you believe that WE should keep paying millions to the car industry to protect local Vehicle Manufacturing.. :?:

PS - I would imagine that SOOooo much more could be achieved in recognising a higher worth of Renewable Power.
Eg.. If it was mandated , that ANY renewable electricity, be paid for at twice or five times (pick a box) the wholesale rate, then surely that would be a great motivation to embark on projects to generate renewable power, and to reduce your Grid Consumption..
How can anyone say it's fine to spend $10B via a Clean Energy Fund, but ignore the need of incentive to keep supplying the power..
$10B spend via a Funding Authority, would end up with the same "Value-For-Money" that the BER gave us..
ie. International businesses taking the cream and leaving the local tradesman destitute.. :roll:

PPS...
...FIT.... all my systems are designed to a kW usage value so it effects none of my customers anyway....

Just curious... So you design for the background power and NO export, or the Maximum Power, and export heaps... Or are you doing Commercial Installs, where the "Business" runs and consumes during the day..
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Last edited by Tracker on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:42 pm

electro wrote:Does anyone know what impact the liberals scrapping the clean energy fund will have on the solar industry.


Do you mean the CEFC? It funds large scale projects, rather than domestic rooftop installations, so there isn't a direct connection. I do know the Liberals have a solar panel though, Jaymes Diaz informed me of that in an interview that went viral a couple of weeks ago :lol:
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby electro » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:11 am

Ok, political rant continues, FFS!!

My systems are designed to generate the same amount of power plus a little extra, for both peak and offpeak combined, that the customer uses over a 12 month period from data taken from a 12 month cycle of power bills. If they generate a bit extra at the end of the day to cover connection fees and a carton of beer now and then, then they are happy. I find that a lot of people do not use AC's, heaters, pumps etc due to price of power, I allow for this in my designs so that they can.

It appears that the FIT is slowly disappearing everywhere, here in SA the FIT finishes end of Sep. Not particulary concerned about it, should the power companies pay more for exported electricity? I think so

To Gordon, im not exactly sure how it all ties in together, that's why im asking the question. Is the STC trading side of things related to the fund at all or not, im not sure and I haven't been able to find the answer anywhere. Liberal members refuse to reply to email so thought here would be a good place to ask the question.

By the way, I support neither party. I noticed on the tv ad's that this was what one side was going to do.....that's all!!
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changes that could affect the value of an STC

Postby Tracker » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:05 am

... systems are designed to generate the same amount of power plus a little extra, for both peak and offpeak combined,.....


OK, so do you have a one for one program... ie. Feed one, take one...
Otherwise I can't see how you could cover the energy bill amount..

I don't consider what I said , to be a political rant.. if you are not prepared to recognise that both sides have agenda, that will affect the STC price, then you are either dreaming, or had your own political agenda.

Given that you have never posted here B4, and LABOR is delivering lie after lie, we have a right to be cynical

So, we are assured. That you are genuine.. ;)
We understand that the fund is more for commercial stuff. Wind farms, helping big business etc.
If the fund goes, then there will be less commercial development and fewer STC's created, creating a greater demand for whatever YOU create.
BUT.... as the intention of LABOR Is to float carbon trading, and I suspect that LIBS will be very happy to follow, then you surely have the answer..

An STC or whatever it is called tomorrow, must follow the world price, Or. It has to be artificially padded by taxpayer funds.. given the level of National debt, do you think that either party will fund the party, any longer..
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby Smurf1976 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:16 pm

An ETS would use the same tradeable unit as that used in the EU. At present they are worth just over $4, so not free but damn close too it compared to the current rate of carbon tax which is around 6 times that level.

But STC's are specific to small scale renewable energy installed within Australia and thus should not be directly affected by whatever happens regarding a carbon tax. If anything, removal of the carbon tax and thus a drop in grid electricity (and to a lesser extent gas) prices would reduce the incentive to install solar as a means of saving money on grid power thus reducing, not increasing, the supply of STC's.

This is particularly true of solar hot water, since off-peak electricity prices are the most sensitive of all utility rates to the carbon price. Cheaper off-peak = less incentive to install solar HWS.

Add in the FIT reductions for new customers, and there is basically nowhere left with a high rate FIT once the Tas and SA schemes close to new customers shortly (and in Tas that is just 28 hours away). That reduces the incentive to install solar PV especially in on-grid applications (which presently account for the majority of installations).

So overall, there is going to be less reason for ordinary consumers (those who aren't particularly interested in solar apart from the money saving aspect) to install solar. It then becomes simple supply and demand so far as STC's are concerned and that suggests prices ought not go down.

Much the same applies to large scale generation also. If the price of electricity as a bulk commodity (within the Australian NEM) drops then that reduces the incentive to invest in new power generation (of any type). It makes large scale wind etc less financially attractive, since the selling price of the output would be lower. So again it's a likely reduction in new construction (versus maintaining the present carbon tax) in a market where demand is legislated to rise. Prices of the credits will thus need to rise in order to make it profitable to build more wind farms (etc) in a market where bulk electricity itself is cheap (from coal, gas).
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Re: Effect on Liberals aboloshing clean energy fund?

Postby Tracker » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:21 pm

..... STC's are specific to small scale renewable energy installed within Australia and thus should not be directly affected by whatever happens regarding a carbon tax. ..

An interesting observation.. stc's ... lgc's .... doest it make any difference?
As one who really does not understand how it all goes together and as one who thinks it is all a bloody Shonk and a contrived means of making money for a chosen few... I comment, that I thought that stc's were artificially set at a value that was thought to equate in some way to the expected value of carbon trading...
Problem is that the enviro-wankers failed to recognise that the rest of the world was growing tired of the whole scene.

The bottom line is that like the Insulation Industry, the Solar Industry WILL be undertaking a radical change, and to think that is wrong is most simplistic.

We should not be propping up any industry, other than those vital to National Well-being ..

Gamblers have already been paid out for a Liberal Win... this is fact..
The carbon tax will soon be gone, and energy prices will fall.. I suspect that there will be additional change, as the carbon-tax cloud is lifted, and energy retailers are forced to be more open with energy pricing..

IMHO... the party is now over.. :idea:
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Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
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Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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