Energy Matters Forums

[zzsstt]

Cost = Energy

I have done the same thing, when I built my house I used mostly T5's with a few 20W energy saving halogens for task lighting. I've replaced almost all the halogens with 11W LED's, but basically as an experiment - saving 9W on a few task lights that are used for perhaps an hour or two a day will make no significant difference to either cost or battery use! Making one less cup of coffee each day would save far more power!

[jimbo]

Now if we go to the original topic I asked about flood lights for the driveway and (paddocks and garden)around the house. I'm talking about a lot of light that would normally be made with a few 100W and 500w halogens. These will be used for a few hours on occasion.

BTW i don't use an electric kettle and don't drink instant coffee

[zzsstt]

BTW i don't use an electric kettle and don't drink instant coffee

Neither do I, but I roast my own coffee and that uses a fair chunk of power, and the espresso machine runs for >9 hours a day......

I'm talking about a lot of light that would normally be made with a few 100W and 500w halogens. These will be used for a few hours on occasion.

LED floods can be good, see my original posts. If you want LOTS of light you should also consider metal halides. They takes 15 minutes to warm up - no instant switch-on - but are close to LED for efficiency (a good halide is better than an average LED) and have a long life. I have a couple for "car park" illumination duties, and as long as they're switched on in time to warm up they are outstanding performers. In my set-up I have CFL's in "pretty" fixtures for ambient lighting on verandahs, with LED floodlights for shed entrances and other areas that need instant bright/task light in a relatively small area, and then halides for car parking areas (so guests can find their cars!). For foxes we use HID's....

[jimbo]

I might just go CFL's around the verandah and see how it looks. Are CFL's life shortened by on and off use? ie turning t on for 1 min while i let the dog out and then off again?

[zzsstt]

Are CFL's life shortened by on and off use? i

Yes. Most state on the packaging that they shouldn't be used in areas of frequent switching, however I have one on a movement sensor that switches on for 5 or so minutes when people, dogs, foxes etc. pass by and it's lasted for a year so far.

The other related issue is that CFL's tend to be slow to warm up, in some cases appallingly slow, so that if the light is switched on it may take several minutes to reach full illumination. I have one Philips "candle" CFL in a converted gaslight in a Victorian bathroom that only reaches a sensible level of light when you're washing your hands and leaving the room!

For instant light CFL's are not all that great, though some are better than others!

[jimbo]

When the government was handing out free CFL's i had my whole house swapped out and they lit up very quick and were bright. They lasted 2 years and are still going. At my new place they have the CFL downlights that take a while to light up and have had a couple blow already.

[zzsstt]

They do seem very variable! I have some that work very well, others (like the Philips that I mentioned) that are painfully slow to warm up. Life expectancy is also variable, but I have noticed that there has been a progression (at least in the ones I have bought) where the early ones tended to "blow" and the later models tend to suffer severely reduced output and yellowing of light. This is most noticeable in multi lamp fixtures, where a combination of different age globes (replacing a blown one) is simply not possible because one will be bright/white and another will be dull/yellow. In single globe fixtures this is easy to miss, right up until you discover you can no longer read the paper!!

[AC-DC]

zzsstt Wrote:
Every retailer will tell the consumer that their product is great and better than the opposition's, and they'll frequently do that even when the opposition is in fact selling the same thing!

Good point but you will find that the stores that have this type of attitude do not have trained staff exclusively on the use, design and application of LED lighting, nor do they care to have. LED lighting specialists on the other hand do have the knowledge and desire to ensure that a customer gets the right LED light for the purpose that it was intended for.

zzsstt Wrote:
Unfortunately we all heard the claims of long life for CFLs, and most of us, if we are honest, know that very few CFL's last anywhere near as long as the claims, and in most cases have a massively reduced light output after a few months.

This is also true with a lot of technology, people tend to be blindsided by the possibilities rather than the facts on real world applications and usages, but this is no reason not to move forward into new frontiers. As is the case with CFL's why would you waste your money on a technology which is slowly but surely being removed for the lighting environment the world over in favuor of LED's

The Big Phase Out Of Incandescent, Halogen and Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Surely many more people really need to be conducting their own research and doing some due diligence into an area that does and will continue to effect their life and back pocket for year and years to come, with most of us having at least 40+ years of paying power bills and looking for ways to reduce consumption, not from a cost point of view but more form an energy usage view when running off the grid or 12volt systems.

[AC-DC]

Tracker Wrote:
My main concern is for the heat-sinking needs of the high-intensity LED's..
eg.. I have seen devices with built in fans, and wonder how they will last.. ie. Will the lamp life be determined by the FAN life.

This is a justifiable question and one which considered some though and research to find a solution.

First of all one needs to ensure that the LED purchased has a tolerance range that will meet or exceed both the ambient temperature of the environment it will be used in as well as taking into consideration the increase in heat transfer while the LED is functioning.

Not all LED's even of the same fitting type, such as the MR16's, have been designed in the same way, with the cheaper products often having inferior heat sinks and ultimately poor heat transfer, not to mention the chip design and it's individual tolerance to heat.

Their is movement in this space and advancements are happening as we speak New LED Cooling Technology is a Game Changer in LED Manufacturing

These type of advancements will increase the possible environments into which LED lights can be used.

[zzsstt]

Good point but you will find that the stores that have this type of attitude do not have trained staff exclusively on the use, design and application of LED lighting, nor do they care to have. LED lighting specialists on the other hand do have the knowledge and desire to ensure that a customer gets the right LED light for the purpose that it was intended for.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people selling LEDs, whether on eBay or claiming to be specialist suppliers, have little idea of what they are selling. This week they are "specialist LED suppliers", whilst last week they sold high tech compost bins, and the week before they sold something else again. Next week they will be selling whatever they think will make a buck, and in many cases a quick investigation shows they are "specialists" in various things depending on which "specialist" web site we are looking at. It is also very rare to find any mention of exactly what training has qualified someone to call themself an expert in LED lighting (with the exception of the wife of someone I knew in the 80's who had a PhD and several papers published in the field of LEDs!). Of course this is no different from the 16 year old "computer expert" salesmen in Harvey N's!

On this forum we have had people posting recommendations of companies "from whom they have bought LED's" that, after the briefest of investigations, turn out to be their own companies. Genuine specialists do not resort to those levels to sell products, those people have simply imported a container of Chinese product and are selling it by whatever means they can find....

None of this, by the way, is directed at "AC-DC", as whilst I don't recall an explicit statement of relationship with acdcledlights or Bill Norris Air Conditioning, the avatar and username are certainly not trying to hide it.