Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

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Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby Majik » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:30 pm

Talking to a retail salesman it suddenly occurred to me that it may be economic to store power in off-peak times for usage in peak times.
Our off peak cost is at 10.1 cents per kWh
Our peak cost is at 47.77 cents per kWh.
Now I do realize that these rates may or may not be best in the market, but my question is as follows:
Q: Has anyone elected to store power in batteries charged from the mains during off-peak periods to use that power during peak time? (similar to off-peak water heating I guess)
There could be issues around efficiency and the full utilization of the stored power, but the option seems so obvious it must have been considered before. My interest extends to adding this information to my site http://www.solar-cell-panels.com but I do need to understand it better first. Hope someone can advise or direct me. Thanks in advance, Majik
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby Tracker » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:39 pm

.
On it's own, not a practical proposal.
As a topic, it has been done over in various ways.

The issue seems to be that it just does not result in one in and one out, and I think its worse at the lower end.
I have found that conservatively, you need to put back twice what you take out.

I don't know if this is because of the type of battery I am using.
I don't have fancy data logging, and simply rely on power meters measuring power out and in.

So, I tried it and as i said, found that it was not worth effort.

I have now modified my methodology, and use solar power to first charge the battery, and then use it to power a special house circuit from 1400 to 2000, thus avoiding most of the peak period consumption..
..
.
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby Majik » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:23 pm

Tracker, thank you for the feedback. Certainly, if I understand you correctly, it pays to drain (use) the power that was stored from solar charging during the higher cost peak period. Appreciated, Majik
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby KPrawn68 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:52 am

In SA there are strict requirements for what can and cant be connected to Off Peak Tariff. Batteries don't fall into their category.
Hence not done "legally" in SA
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby Tracker » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:17 am

Majik wrote:Tracker, thank you for the feedback. Certainly, if I understand you correctly, it pays to drain (use) the power that was stored from solar charging during the higher cost peak period. Appreciated, Majik


Since changing my philosophy from using as much transferred power as I can, economically , to using all Solar power I can, and only prop up as absolutely needed from Off-Peak power , I am finding that the import vs export is decreasing.. :D
After all, the aim is to reduce power costs..

My first attempt at power shifting consisted of time clocks and a PowerStar W7 inverter charger..
I charged during the Off Peak and Inverted during the PEAK period. Plus..
The W7 is known to be wasteful and inefficient.
The result was that I had a clear two to one Import Export ratio, but for a relatively high DOD.. Higher than desirable. There was NO solar contribution.
The cost of power was effectively reduced by half, but at what equipment cost.
Clearly, that system was not ideal..

My feeling is that a more efficient system, using a good DOD could be more effective.
Ie. Shallow DOD and recharge seems to require more power.. again, is this because of the battery technology.. ie.. Lithium could be much better...

Your web site is quite well constructed .. did you do it yourself.. :?:
The content provides a fair introduction, but I found the constant Solar-Cells-Panels reference, 'distracting'.

As has just been mentioned, there is a clear problem in some circumstances , in load shifting.
In NSW, we don't have that issue when you have solar power, because you are typically removed from Off Peak rates and placed.on Time Of Use tariffs.
This allows YOU to use time clocks to almost do whatever you wish.

I do believe that in all States, where Off-Peak tariffs exist, they are based on specific and fixed connection for approved loads and load shifting will not be included .

Your comment about the amounts you were paying for Peak and Off Peak, did suggest that you are on TOU rates.. and where load shifting was almost fair game, until the rules are changed..
(...but how can anyone legislate against charging batteries, at ANY time.. like how does an electric car get recharged..)
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby FarmerJohn » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:41 am

KPrawn68 wrote:In SA there are strict requirements for what can and cant be connected to Off Peak Tariff. Batteries don't fall into their category.
Hence not done "legally" in SA


Do they have a Time Of Use metering option? In NSW, being on TOU metering means there are periods of the day when ALL your consumption is charged at a lower rate. I opted for this and paid for a new meter. This means I can charge batteries from the Grid if I need to between 22:00 and 07:00 Monday to Friday at roughly $0.17 per kwh instead of $0.38 per kwh.

Over the weekend it is all charged at the lower rate.
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby Majik » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:53 pm

Hi Tracker and KPrawn68, thank you for your feedback.
This is all new to me, participating in a forum and indeed getting involved with solar. To answer Tracker's question I built the website www.solar-cell-panels.com purchasing some articles that I am trying to clean up, however, the front page is all my creation. Thanks for the tick of approval.
The key in communicating with users or potential users seemed to me is to base explanation within the three branches: total, excess and stand-alone...then develop from there. Hope this makes sense. It was the area I struggled with at the beginning.
My knowledge is currently very limited and your feedback is greatly appreciated. The technology speak on this forum site is a little overwhelming, may I say so.
For reasons of independence, not necessarily for positive economic outcome I want to try a stand-alone set-up. Then I can use my prior technician (1960;s 1970's) experience to set up garden lights, duplicate in-house electronics etc. I wonder where you can get a small system similar to the ones the Government use to advise of school zones?? A starting experimental system.
Have noted the feedback on repetition of s-c-p.com on my website and will look through my website to consider simplifying. That is good feedback. Eventually I will apply for affiliation, so I need to improve my site to make it both appealing and effective, while building traffic. I want to build a niche for the every day user, not too technical but communicating easily and clearly. That's the goal. Enjoy to-day, Majik
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby KPrawn68 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:19 pm

In SA we have only two tariffs Peak which runs 24 hours day for general use and Off-Peak which runs roughly 11pm-6am and sometimes depending on meter another hour in arvo this is reserved for storage systems in regards HWS, Under floor heating etc
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby davidg » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:08 pm

FarmerJohn wrote:This means I can charge batteries from the Grid if I need to between 22:00 and 07:00 Monday to Friday at roughly $0.17 per kwh instead of $0.38 per kwh.......Over the weekend it is all charged at the lower rate.

Umm in Vic with Origin ?? :?:
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Re: Storage from Off Peak Usage in Peak

Postby Majik » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:31 pm

davidg/Farmer John, as Tracker suggested, who knows if I am charging batteries? Assuming standard socket / switch to the mains. The key question relates to the efficiency, hence economics, of (electrical) charge now at cheaper rate, then use later when high rate. Tracker confirmed my concern about the efficiency. Certainly interested in the results of any carefully constructed test or experiment. Add to my list of things to do. All interesting, Majik
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