Retrofitting results

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Retrofitting results

Postby munrre » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:49 am

One of the problems with slowly retrofitting energy efficiency measures is the lack of feedback of what works and what doesn't.

I just looked at my Monthly reading for July and it looks like something must be working :D
Had to share..

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These are Winter records since installing our second array (total 2.6kw/h max) in mid 2008.
J tarrif is our off peak solar HWS boosting.

Some of the things we have done over the past couple of years:
Bought a whole house energy meter. Wattson. Large display so everyone can see what's going on.
Turned off everything except our PVR at the wall. Turned off the AC at the panel when not in use.
Secondary glazing with Clear comfort in our North facing sun room.
De-commissioning an oil heater and blocking up all wall vents (clear comfort)
Replaced useless vertical blinds with decent curtains to the floor.
Sectioned off the lounge room using a curtain when needed.
Replaced a (broken) LCD TV (280 watts) with an LED back lit TV (70W max, usually 30W)
Using a Netbook and/or Laptop instead of PCs
Cooking and boiling kettles with LPG (9kg bottle lasts 3 Months)
Installed a piece of perspex on our 3rd (shattered) HWS panel (Long story)
Double insulated all hot water pipes for as far as I could get to them.
Some minor fridge changes (insulation, ventilation) but won't know until I get a year's data if this helps.
Using LED lights in the main living area.
The 2nd PV array also helps shade our Northern roof which I am convinced has helped keep the house cooler in Summer.

So, for the traditionally worst Month of the year, we only took from the grid 0.5 kilowatts per day (Including boosting the HWS!)
Our household of 3 is currently averaging under 4kw/h per day of light and power usage (3.19 last week!).
This doesn't include the HWS boosting, which was turned off mid August last year and hopefully will be this year too.
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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:08 am

Excellent results :)

What sort of LED lights are you using? I'm still waiting for some sensibly bright whole room LED lights to become available, as I don't like downlights for general room lighting. I've seen write ups of them, and the lighting shop in town tells me they should be avaiable to buy before the end of the year.
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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby munrre » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:38 am

Thanks Gordon,

The LEDs are just chinese cheapies from DealExtreme
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/e27-3w-42- ... v-ac-29426
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/b22-3w-18- ... 220v-47784

I think I had one of four fail which is OK if they are only $5 each. Deal extreme are pretty good if you tell them something has failed they usually send another.

I use them in the TV room in wall pendants and one in a floor standing reading lamp. I think they are ideal in this situation.

Regards

Rod
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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:53 pm

sensibly bright whole room LED lights


By this if your thinking one globe in ceiling hung fixture or clam shell style fitting. That will provide light for the entire room. i think there wouldn't be much energy saving over a compact florescent globe. For example A bedroom would need at least one 15w CF and any LED to mach its output in a single globe would be around 15w also.

Why i switched to LED wasn't so much for power saving that I found some LED Globes that have a warmer more natural light than the most CF. Its more like the light output of the old tungsten globes. The other reason is the instantaneous light when you flick the switch (no warm up period like CF) I guess power factor is better with led to. But ( real world) light output vs consumption of LED isn't that much better than CF.

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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:33 pm

I'm not doing it for energy saving, the long time taken to get to full brightness when turned on, comparatively short lifetime of CFLs, Mercury content, and the long slow yellowing dimming period are my main reasons to switch to LEDs, when they are bright and inexpensive enough, but they are not quite there yet.
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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby offgridQLD » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:24 pm

Much the same reasons as myself Gordon.

Today I was doing some research on 35w 1500mm t5 (very thin style tubes) for my workshop. If they have a electronic ballast they have around 95 power factor and throw out well over 3000lm each.With no noise and very little flicker compared to the common T8 tubes. I would love to go led in the shed but like you said the led options are just shy of what i need for the power I want to consume.There are some good LED high bay lights but start at around 100w for a 10,000lm (same as 3 T5 1500mm tubes) output but you need them up high to take full advantage of them.They are $500 each to.

I just hope any led options that are around the corner will be adaptable to the fittings Im buying soon.

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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby Helipos » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:41 pm

We have some Highbays in our shed at our farm, it's got a pretty low roof so we just cut large holes in its skirt (not sure what you call it) and it works pretty well. Just left the rim so it doesn't get smashed too easily.

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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby offgridQLD » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:37 pm

Yes sounds like a good idea , I have a roof height ranging from 3m to 5m so 4m height in the middle where lights would be. You can get different shaped wider reflector skirts for lower roof. I did find a you can get them in 30 - 40 - 60 - 80w . It Would be interesting to see how the 30w led high bays units would compare to one 35w T5 1500mm tube.

About $100 each.
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They are only 2500lm compared to 3400 lm for a 35w t8 . I wonder if the real word light on the ground works out better in a high bay as its all shining down and the tube needs to reflect as its given off in all directions.

I think I am just going to end up purchasing a $20 lux meter from ebay and purchase a 35w t5 and a 30w led high bay and do some testing . For a workshop you need a good 400 - 500 lux to see well as a minimum.

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Based on one lighting webpages calculations I would need 17 x 3400lm t5 tubes to achieve 500 flux over a area of 120m2 that's 595w!

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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby zzsstt » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:46 am

It's always amusing when people start to understand why businesses complain about power bills! You can either spends tens of thousands of capital and cut your power bills a bit, or spend far less capital and spend the money on electricity. Either way it costs a fortune!!

1/ For a shed, always consider simply using sections of polycarbonate roofing and letting in the natural light. It may get a touch warmer in the summer, but open the doors and let the wind cool it down!

2/ Use portable lighting rather than lighting the entire area. I have portable work lights that had 2 halogen lamps which I replaced with 10W LED floodlights (from Wattsavers, and they're pretty good). This can be moved to illuminate whatever I'm working on. I also have what we used to call "AnglePoise" lamps on all my benches, my favourites are the 22W circular fluoro's with a magnifying glass in the centre. The non-magnifying versions often turn up at tips, boot sales etc. and can be fitted with CFLs (not so great) or have the entire fitting replaced with something more suitable.

3/ Remember that many lighting requirements are to meet OH&S regulations. In reality many are overstated - do we really need to put our sunglasses on when we enter a supermarket? It is often perfectly OK (in practice) to have much lower light levels, especially if task lighting and portable lighting is used in addition to general lighting.

4/ Fit many switches! Sometimes you may need higher levels of general lighting, but if you're only working at a bench then there's no point in having the entire shed fully lit! Arrange the lights such that they can be switched on by area, and by intensity - in a large shed that has many rows of lights, switching 1 in 3 rows on may be all that is required at certain times and for certain jobs.

5/ Work out how much time the lights will acutally be on. There is no point in spending thousands of dollars on LED highbays that save 30% (whatever) on power bills, if they'll only be on for a few hours a month! Most domestic sheds (by which I mean those not in use all day every day) are unlikely to warrant anything more than electronically ballasted T5 tubes. With task+portable lighting and zone+intensity switching, such a system can give ample light for low outlay and reasonable running costs.

6/ Be careful about the claims made in the advertising. A 400lm LED does not give the same light as a 900lm halogen, no matter how many times you say it. Equally, why would a "10W LED" have a power use of "only 6.5W"?

Having said the above, I have a selection of floodlights from WattSaver (with whom I have no connections whatsoever) ranging from 10W to 30W and I have had no failures - 1 DOA that was fixed very quickly - and I've been very pleased with them. I have never measured their light ouptut, but I did confirm the 10W'ers are drawing only 10W and they do produce an impressive amount of light.

Unfortunately I also know of one farm that replaced their shed lights with LED's (not from Wattsavers, I do not know the source) and then ripped them all out again when they discovered there was insufficient light to work by.
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Re: Retrofitting results

Postby offgridQLD » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:58 pm

All interesting and valid points.Its true I don't need it to look like the surface of the sun over every inch of work surface.

Myself being off grid I am personally not trying to save money with efficient lighting but more so extend battery life. I have ample daytime lighting through skylights and windows along with large door that can be opened. Many switches I agree is a great idea. All my benches and equipment have task lights installed. At this stage I am tossing up between 6 x 30w (ebay $100) LED hi bays for the main 7m x 12m section.That would give me one high bay for every 4mx3m area of floor. I could then use 3 x 1500mm T5 tubes for the lower roof 12m x 3m section.

I think Its a good plan to purchase the three t5 lubes and to start with just one of the eBay High bays and test the output first before purchasing the remaining five. That way I can back peddle and just buy six t5 tubes if the led high bay turn out to be rubbish.

The only thing I am unsure of is if say a T5 tube rated at 3000lm and a LED high bay rated at 3000lm where to be compared . Would the high bay be brighter on the ground as more of the light is shining directed down from the leds. Where a t5 tube tends to throw light in all directions . I know you can get reflectors for the tubes but I still feel more light would be wasted to the sides in a tube fitting than a high bay though a quality reflector might over come this.

My Proposed idea
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