VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

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VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby Tracker » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:18 pm

VPhase Voltage Optimisation that is proven to reduce energy consumption

VPhase device works throughout the entire day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all year round limiting electricity waste and thereby reducing carbon emissions. It is a ‘fit and forget’ solution that does not require maintenance or any change to your lifestyle.

The exciting thing about the VPhase unit is that once fitted, it is designed to start making the savings instantly; and, unlike Solar power which is heavily reliant upon the sun shining. VPhase reduces and stabilises your incoming voltage to a constant level of 220volts. By doing this your household appliances work more efficiently and you do not pay for excess over voltage that electricity companies supply into your home.

http://libertysaver.com.au/vphase-optimisation/
http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/money/bills/article/-/14017642/billion-dollar-power-drain/

The name suggests it has something to do with PHASE, but the description declares that it is a Constant Voltage device, ensuring that only 220V is delivered to the home and this results in power savings of up to 17%..
Lower Voltage means Lower POWER.. :( .. .. 8% reduction in Voltage gives 17% improvement in power consumption..

WELL - do you believe them..? ... . . . . . . How would Channel Seven (Today Tonight) get sucked in

BTW - ""Maximum current in active mode: 20Amp and in BYPASS mode: 80Amp ""
http://www.libertysaver.com.au/brochure/VPHASEBROCHURE1.pdf
Typically the VPhase unit can regulate for many hours at 2.5kW but only for 5 minutes at 4kW.
If the high electricity consumption is sustained in the short term active region or a very high level of electricity is consumed within the house then the VPhase unit will enter bypass mode. In bypass mode the VPhase unit will stop regulating voltage until the electricity consumption has fallen;
voltage delivered to the circuits at the same voltage as delivered by the utility company.

..
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Last edited by Tracker on Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tracker
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby hsvz » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:33 pm

lol, that's so wrong - he lost it for me when he said what his power bill was with basically nothing on !!
Aussie Solar Installation
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12 x 195 Watt Panels
My panel output http://www.pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=6722&sid=6396
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby Tracker » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:50 pm

.
$2000 a Qtr with a fridge and two computers... YES, you responded as I did.

My bill used to be $1100 with 5 fridges and multiple tropical aquariums, four computers 24/7 plus, plus, plus..
:lol:

I do hope someone can convince us that we are "Doubting Thomas' "
..
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby zzsstt » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:31 am

Surely nobody believes anything on Today Tonight? Isn't it a comedy show?

Reducing the voltage to a motor (fridge etc.) will not save power as they will simply draw a higher current.

Reducing the voltage to a computer or other electronic item will not save power, they will also regulate themselves and draw a higher current.

Reducing the voltage to a thermostatically controlled system like a hotplate or oven will not save power, they simply run at a higher duty cycle to maintain the temperature (though the instantaneous usage may be reduced).

Reducing the voltage to an electronically controlled fluoro light will not save power, the electronical "ballast" will already control the power that the light uses.

which leaves;

Reducing the voltage to an incandescent light WILL save power. So people who have not replaced their (illegal to sell) old style light bulbs may save a few percent of the cost of running those lights. This will also apply to 240V halogens and 12V halogens with iron core transformers, but not those with electronic drivers.

Reducing the voltage to a old style "ballasted" fluoro tube WILL reduce the power used.
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby Tracker » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:49 am

zzsstt wrote:Reducing the voltage to a old style "ballasted" fluoro tube WILL reduce the power used.

...
:roll: -- I have one of them.. That will be a saving then.. I'll sign up for a VPhase on Monday.
Surely I will recoup the cost in 79.6 years..

Today Tonight - well there should be a way that they can be sued for blatantly promoting the product..
They did not say "..and we understand the agent claims savings of..", no, they stated what the savings would be..

The problem with Today Tonight is that they have never heard of Einstein.. The thought that they can say that reducing the voltage will reduce the power consumed is largely laughable.. A radiant heater WILL consume less power, but it WILL run for longer to heat to the same temperature..

Perhaps, we should all write to TT, and tell them what idiots they are...
and
where does this figure come from..
Cordless telephone with base station – 30% energy saving.


Maybe the producers come from Nigeria.. :lol: That would explain it..
..
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby Rayza13 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:44 pm

Picture this, a street of 100 houses consisting of 50 pv solar systems. All connected to the grid which is already supplying an average of 245vac to each property. As we know pv solar systems can only feed back to the grid if the inverter output ac voltage is greater that the grid voltage at the supply point. Now, during peak sun these 50 systems may be lifting the grid voltage in the street to a possibly 255volts. An increase in grid supply of 10 volts. With the remaining houses now being supplied with 255vac supply, and knowing that there are appliances along the street being powered by 25vac above their most efficient voltage. Don't you think the households without the solar systems are being disadvantaged by the households with grid feeds systems? The knockers can dis the Vphase device all they like, but simple logic tells us that if your constant operational devices are running at their most efficient voltage, they will, save you on running costs, last longer and leave a smaller carbon footprint. The ignorance which has allowed the solar industry to thrive on large promises, is the same ignorance which doubts this simple step down device. My prodiction is that 70% of homes will have one of these devices installed within the next 10 years. The other 30% will just be poorer for not having one. The UK have gone large with this device. I think we should have followed suit before jumping into solar. Better yet, each solar system should of included one of these devices. Anyway, here's a device that saves on consumption 24/7, not just when the sun shines. You be the judge. ;)
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby zzsstt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:42 am

But reducing the voltage doesn't achieve anything. Did you read my post above?

It takes a certain amount of energy to achieve a task. Lifting a weight, warming (or cooling) a room take fixed amount of energy. Almost all electronic devices regulate their own power, which is why so many items can run (without any adjustment) on almost any voltage. A laptop doesn't use half as much power when you take it to the USA and run it on 110V!! Equally an electric motor largely regulates itself, drawing more or less power to do the job.

Basic physics:

watts (i.e. power) = volts x amps

If you need 1000W, you need 1000W. If the voltage is lower, the current will increase. Electricity is metered by kWh, so decreasing the voltage and increasing the current will give the same usage on the meter. There are only a very small number of electrical items that will actually reduce their consumption if the voltage is decreased, and the only major item on that list in domestic terms is the incandescent light which is basically no longer sold in Australia.

"Most efficient voltage" is a meaningless statement. All electronics run at a fixed voltage that is supplied by an internal power supply. That supply will take whatever mains voltage exists and convert it to whatever the item requires. It's "efficiency" won't be impacted by mains voltage. Most other domestic loads will also self regulate, and their efficiency will not be significantly changed by a few percent of change in mains voltage. Conversely, too low a voltage may cause problems with higher than expected currents. As described above, motors will draw more or less current to accomodate voltage changes, and resistive loads may exhibit lower instantaneous draws but over a higher duty cycle.

As for it being taken up in the UK, well a quick glance on the "Which?" UK web site (similar to "Choice" in Australia) here http://www.which.co.uk/energy/energy-saving-products/guides/10-eco-products-you-dont-need/ has voltage reducing units rated as the top 2 "eco devices you don't need", the VPhase is specifically mentioned at number 2 on that list!! Their verdict - "Save £535 by leaving them on the shelf."

Funnily enough they find that the VPhase does reduce power consumption on lighting (as predicted, remembering they still use incandescents), and on a vacuum cleaner (though they don't state if it also reduces the suction, and I'm betting it does!). With an electric heater it actually increased consumption as the heater had to be on for longer. A cheaper version of the device by another company increased the consumption of a hifi, a plasma TV and an energy saving light bulb.

Hmm, not looking good is it?
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby Smurf1976 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:51 pm

There are individual appliances where consumption will change along with a change in voltage, but they are not the majority of electricity use.

If someone has an underpowered electric heater, for example they just have a 2.4kW fan heater in a large room, then they will simply turn it on full blast when it's cold and turn it off when it's not. The heater can't heat the room to some "ideal" temperature where it would be turned down, because it is not powerful enough to do so.

In this example, a rise in voltage directly translates to a rise in electricity consumption and heat output. I know of one electricity company (back in the old days when the one company did everything) that used to intentionally crank the voltage to 254V whenever the temperature dropped below a certain point. The underlying reason was only very loosely related to voltage drop in the grid - it was mostly about making sure that electric heaters kept people warm enough lest they consider switching back to wood etc.

In other words, it was for commercial marketing reasons first and foremost since the utility in question was aggressively marketing electric heating as an alternative to other fuels at time. Internal studies had found consumer perceptions that electric heaters weren't powerful enough as being one of the major reasons consumers didn't like them. This lead to the imposition of a minimum size rule in order to qualify for a financial incentive, and a general message that consumers should get an expert to do a heat load calculation to make sure the heater they intended purchasing was large enough to keep them toasty warm. The last thing they wanted was anyone complaining that the heaters didn't put out enough heat, hence cranking up the voltage "just to be safe".

But other than simple resistive heaters, and non-electronic lighting systems, there's not a lot of linkage between voltage and consumption these days. It was more relevant in the past, but even then it was known in the industry that a 5% drop in voltage lead to only a 2% drop in consumption, and even that was somewhat illusory given that such a drop would only ever be done during the peaks when off-peak water heaters wouldn't be operating. If you did it for a full 24 hours, it's closer to a 1% energy saving.

I won't be spending a significant sum of money to cut my electricity use by 1% anytime soon. That said, I can see a use for the device if someone has a specific reason, other than saving energy per se, why they want to reduce the voltage. That's likely to be relevant mostly to the small number of people living in the middle of nowhere where the supply is somewhat unstable etc.
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby Rayza13 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:12 pm

Ok, so what your trying to tell me is that if a home is running one to two ac's, 20 to 30 halogen downlights, washer, dryer, fridge, freezer, tv's and a multitude of other stuff, this device will not bring considerable saving?

I will be running my own case study over the next 3 months. The premises is complaining of bills up to $1200 a quarter. It is in a rural stetting and the customer is on a swer line which are netorious for excessive voltage. Also they are blowing alot of globes in their light fittings. I will install a vphase and prove its performance in the field. I know the r&d in Adelaide was a success, so I am confident this unit will save the average Aussie household money. The unit will not be connected to cookers, hot water elements, electric heaters and other big drawing items on dedicated circuits. The unit will go into bypass if it goes over it's rated operating current .keep you all posted.
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Re: VPhase - Yet another scam..?????

Postby zzsstt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:16 pm

Smurf1976 wrote:If someone has an underpowered electric heater, for example they just have a 2.4kW fan heater in a large room, then they will simply turn it on full blast when it's cold and turn it off when it's not. The heater can't heat the room to some "ideal" temperature where it would be turned down, because it is not powerful enough to do so.

In this example, a rise in voltage directly translates to a rise in electricity consumption and heat output.


V=IR
R=V/I
P = VI = Vsquared/R

So for a 2400W "3 bar" heater, R=24ohm (240/10)

So;
for 240V P = 2400W
for 250V P = 2604W

Which is why for uncontrolled resistive loads like incandescent lights, the instantaneous power usage does vary with voltage. But for any load that is controlled, which includes heaters and ovens that have thermostats (and as Smurf1976 points out, are "big" enough not to run 100% of the time) they simply run over a lower duty cycle with a higher voltage, a drop on voltage will cause a drop ininstantaneous power usage but over a higher duty cycle.

Of course using the VScam device will also reduce the heat coming from those units, so you will be colder. That is probably why "Which" found that it increased the consumption of the electric heater - the reduced output meant the heater never got to the point where it's thermostat shut it off!!

VScam - making people poorer AND colder!!
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