Hi From a newby

The greenest watt is the one you don't have to create. Energy efficiency is the low hanging fruit of greening our homes. Ask your questions or post your energy efficiency tips in here!

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Sonnig » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:58 pm

zzsstt wrote:I think there may be some misunderstanding happening here! It would seem that people are getting confused between time of use metering (peak/shoulder/off-peak) and "controlled load".

I think I explained it properly but you seem to be confirming everything I said so I’m not sure what the misunderstanding is.

zzsstt wrote:Whilst widely known as "off peak hot water", that service is in fact a controlled load - it runs from a separate meter (or register on a newer meter) and is switched on/off by the power company (va a timer or pulsed signal).

Sonnig wrote:The HWS is connected to a time switched circuit and as you mentioned increments register 07.

Just to note, this doesn’t change when TOU is applied to the whole house on the main circuit.

zzsstt wrote:"Off peak" on a time of use meter is simply another charge rate applied to the entire house during the night or at weekends.

Sonnig wrote:All that will happen when reprogrammed for TOU is that the same connections will remain without rewiring but register 04 will increment from 7am-11pm Mon-Fri and register 06 with increment at all other times while you are importing.

To save having to go back a page in the forum:
04 - kWh Imported Peak Energy
06 - kWh Imported Off Peak Energy
Note: I don’t have SP AusNet’s official label for register 07 but as mentioned it is basically off peak hot water for the majority of cases.

zzsstt wrote:The two systems are not mutually exlcusive, it is entirely possible to have time of use metering for the entire house (except water) and also have a "controlled load" meter or register for the hot water.

Sonnig wrote:the same connections will remain without rewiring

By this I mean that the HWS will remain on the time controlled circuit and the TOU will be applied to the entire house (except water).

There is one item that can make it look like confusion exists. That is if it is assumed that TOU has a shoulder rate. Every TOU SP AusNet customer I know personally and from comments made by forum members is on a 2 tiered tariff that has no shoulder. I think I read in a post some time ago that other Victorian distributors do use a shoulder rate.

I don't have personal experience with this but for SP AusNet customers, whether with or without TOU the HWS circuit is turned on at 11pm and off at 7am, 7 days a week that happens to coincide with the start of Mon-Fri off-peak for TOU metering so it may appear that one is being confused with the other. I'd be happy to hear of people's personal experiences in relation to the on/off time.

It would actually be possible for a retailer to charge a different rate for the HWS off peak to the entire house off peak if they wanted to but I’ve been given a first hand example by one of the forum members that only a single off peak rate is used (at least for their retailer).

zzsstt wrote:I suspect that the two things are becoming confused........

I’m happy to clarify anything further if what I’ve written doesn’t appear to be correct.

greenmorry wrote:So technically speaking, do I need to have the meter re-programmed for, as zzsstt stated, "Time Of Use" metering for the whole house instead of just "Controlled Load" for the HWS?

Yes, you have no choice but to go on TOU now since the SFIT scheme has closed (i.e. paid the same for export as import and no TOU). They will reprogram your meter for export and at the same time update it for TOU. On page 2 of the “Certificate Of Electrical Safety” the “Metering Required” section has a tick box for “Hot Water” so they should know to leave you with that in place.

I’d still like to know what your meter is currently reading. Is it true that you have registers 01, 02, 03, 04 & 06 that match mine as well as the 07 register? Before I went on to TOU I only had 01, 02 & 03. What are your 04 & 06 reporting?
Sonnig
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:34 am
Location: Eastern suburbs, Melbourne / SP AusNet / Diamond Energy

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby zzsstt » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:34 am

Sonnig wrote:I think I explained it properly but you seem to be confirming everything I said so I’m not sure what the misunderstanding is.


I didn't say that you misunderstood anything, or that you got anything wrong, and in fact I was not referencing your post at all. I simply said that there were some misunderstandings happening. It seems fairly clear that when a customer is told they have to have things "rewired by an electrician" to run on "off-peak", and that "off-peak" is only for hot water, that the source of the confusion lies in the phrases "off-peak", "time of use" and "controlled load". Given that the conversation was between the customer and the supplier, I would assume that the confusion started there.
zzsstt
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Sonnig » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:45 pm

zzsstt wrote:I didn't say that you misunderstood anything, or that you got anything wrong, and in fact I was not referencing your post at all. ....... Given that the conversation was between the customer and the supplier, I would assume that the confusion started there.

Very true, I did look over the previous posts several times before responding and since I had already stated that the supplier (i.e. the retailer Lumo) was suggesting something totally ludicrous, so obviously they were confused, hopefully my explanation would have cleared up that confusion.

When the very next post states that “the two things are becoming confused” and there are “no references to any previous posts” it looked like you had misinterpreted what I had said. I wanted to make sure that others hadn’t seen your post as suggesting the technical detail in my post wasn’t accurate. Thanks for clearing that up.

Anyhow I’m glad we’ve all managed to give greenmorry the information needed despite the misinformation given by the retailer.

I’m looking forward to getting a response to my question about registers 04 & 06 for their 24hr tariff as it is only through gathering information from those with experience (vs what someone in an office will tell you over the phone) that the correct information without assumptions can be passed on to others.

Ohh, sorry I also see I neglected to respond to the following:

Sonnig wrote:When I mentioned the off peak period shifting by 1hr during daylight savings time I was basing this on the clock not changing. I am aware that my retailer, Diamond Energy receives the 30 minute interval data.

I would imagine that SP AusNet charges them based on daylight savings time so I guess it is up to the retailer as to how they apply the data to my bill. I will ask them what timing method they use.


Tracker wrote:So would this imply that they WILL hopefully, compensate to DST...

Unfortunately I ran out of time to ring Diamond Energy on Friday and ask them but I hope to do that early this week after the long weekend.
Sonnig
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:34 am
Location: Eastern suburbs, Melbourne / SP AusNet / Diamond Energy

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby gyro » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:03 pm

Hi greenmorry
I believe your plasma TV (up to 2400 watts) might just be the straw that breaks the camels back! I suggest you throw it and get a good LED TV they don't heat up your lounge room in summer as well.
gyro
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby solar4phil » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:26 pm

You may also want to check with your power retailer that they will still provide the current feed in tarif in the future if you add more panels. Your 1.5 system is on the small side and will not make a appreciable dint in your bill. From experience the tarriffs you are on are also on the high side and when you adivse them of a solar connection they frequently will increase your tariff. So it could end up with a very minimal saving. Suggest also that you get a profesional home energy audit to determine in $ terms what is causing the bill. The best kW is the one you dont use!
solar4phil
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby zzsstt » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:26 am

solar4phil wrote:Suggest also that you get a profesional home energy audit to determine in $ terms what is causing the bill. The best kW is the one you dont use!


Whilst it is true that not using the power is the best result, I have limited faith in "professional energy audits". I have recently witnessed such an event. It cost a relatively large sum of money, and involved a guy walking around looking at appliances and then producing a report. To be honest the report could have been written without ever visiting the site as it listed almost nothing that was site specific, instead being comprised of the normal "turn things off at the wall" and "keep the fridge ventilated at the back" advice that is utterly generic.

A far better approach is to buy the tools you need. I would suggest that a suitable kit comprises three "tools":

1/ Whole house walk-about meter. I use the Wattson, which is "OK". It has a sensor that measures your whole house consumption (and PV generation if applicable) and a display. You can walk around the house switching things off and seeing what differences they make to consumption, and then leave the display somewhere obvious as a constant reminder of your power use.

2/ Single appliance meter. I use a Power Mate, which can be purchased from the CCI webshop http://www.ccisa.com.au/shop/. It piggy-backs between the mains and the appliance, and will give instantaneous and peak power use, and if left for a few days to cater for cycling (for fridges, water pumps and so forth) will also give predictions based on billing perdiods and current power prices. There are less costly devices to do this, but I have found the Power Mate to be rugged and reliable, and when tested against an "officially calibrated" power company meter was also surprisingly accurate.

3/ IR Temperature sensor. Can be used to find cold spots where fridge seals are leaking, or where inadequate insulation has been fitted to walls, ceilings, hot water tanks etc.

The above items will probably cost far less than an audit, and enable an ongoing investigation to be carried out - allowing for changes of season, new appliances etc. to be factored in.
zzsstt
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby greenmorry » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:25 pm

Hi all and thanks for your patience for a reply (work has been hectic) Our solar install went in yesterday as planned and I"m happy with the professionalism of the installers and the quality of there work. They were very helpful and explained a lot of stuff to me and confirmed the meter would either be swapped out or reprogrammed for TOU by SpAusnet and a new sticker put on the front of it to reflect the export registers! For the HWS, he stated a timed contoller may have to be installed in addition to the meter and he would be happy to come back and do it for free if needed! He would of installed one right then if he had one handy in the van.

sonnig - register 06 is the main tarrif anytime step 1 (highest)
register 04 is the second tier tarrif any time step 2 (lowest)
register 07 is my HWS (off peak)
These are the only registers being used at the moment

Gyro - The Plasma is only eight months old, so I'm not going to "throw it" for an LED! That would actually be false economy as it would take me years to recoup money spent on a new one through power saving! It doesn't have a watts per hour tag on the back, it all it states is 3.3amps? If thats the problem, then I'll live with it. I have to have some luxury in my life! LOL

solar4phil - I will be shopping around and changing my power retailer once my system is connected to the grid. I know there are better tarrif rates out there!

On another note, today in full sun (sun overhead, no clouds, no shading), the peak power the panels put out was 0.973kw for only a few seconds. I know its winter and the sun isn't as strong but, does this sound about right? I know its only a small 1.52kw system (190w x 8 panels) but I expected a bit more!

Another query I have is, Although the system is not connected to the grid, the sparky left all the isolaters and the circuit breaker switched on! Should I turn them off until the system has been inspected and the meter re-programmed for export, or just leave it the way he left it?

Regards, Mark
Last edited by greenmorry on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
greenmorry
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:39 pm

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:36 pm

greenmorry wrote:Gyro - The Plasma is only eight months old, so I'm not going to "throw it" for an LED! That would actually be false economy as it would take me years to recoup money spent on a new one through power saving!


It is extremely unlikely that your plasma TV uses anywhere near 2.4kW anyway, it should say the power consumption in Watts somewhere on it or in the specs. I've just bought an 80cm LED TV, and am very happy with its ~30W use, and negligible use of a couple of watts when on standby, very good for my off-grid system.

On another note, today in full sun (sun overhead, no clouds, no shading), the peak power the panels put out was 0.973kw for only a few seconds...


If the panels are not pointed anywhere near the sun, that's about all you can expect in winter. There has been some discussion of this in other threads recently. If they are face-on, then it is indeed lower that you should expect.
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5761
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby greenmorry » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:40 pm

If the panels are not pointed anywhere near the sun, that's about all you can expect in winter. There has been some discussion of this in other threads recently. If they are face-on, then it is indeed lower that you should expect.


The panels were facing the sun but on a lower tilt angle, if that makes sense!
greenmorry
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:39 pm

Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:47 pm

Mark, I understand, the further away from the sun the panels are pointing, the lower the effective radiation the panels receive. I think it was Dwayne3.5kWor not in Lilydale who was asking about the lower production. He's not too far from you, it's probably worth looking through that thread.
See solar-wind-gear/topic3604.html#p24491
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5761
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Energy Efficiency

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

new solar power specials
cron