Hi From a newby

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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Tracker » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:44 pm

greenmorry wrote:Will this meter need re-programming for export?

I would assume YES.. These meters seem to be able to many things, if programmed that way.
I presume that nothing will happen until the installer puts the paperwork in after completion. I doubt that you could speed it up any way, but a phone call could test that suggestion ... "..and my meter will need to be changed for export... can I arrange that now..?"
zzsstt wrote:When I pointed out that my meter showed a running total,

Naturally, all these meters seem to only give YOU, the customer, a running total.. The only way that we mortals can get running information is to count the pulses and use a computer to synthesise the data.
zzsstt wrote:and it was he who told me that the meters self adjusted based on an internal calender,

Now, that is interesting, and not consistent, but one would ASSUME, that he would know.
There are just so many meters.. Perhaps different authorities just adopt an accounting practice and run with that..
eg. I understand that in Vic. the customer can actually read of the totals for the TOU periods, but in NSW we can't -- Just a cumulative total.
zzsstt wrote: For most people it wouldn't make a big difference,

...except that for the likes of me, it could make a significant difference in that we program the major appliances to come on such that they finish just B4 0700.. So if I was an hour out, it could be costing a deal over the year.. Perhaps I need to make sure that there is a "Comfort Zone" in the timing, so that neither Brain-Abnormality nor Computer Abnormality, causes unwanted cost..
..
.
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby zzsstt » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:53 pm

Tracker wrote:There are just so many meters.. Perhaps different authorities just adopt an accounting practice and run with that..
eg. I understand that in Vic. the customer can actually read of the totals for the TOU periods, but in NSW we can't -- Just a cumulative total.


I'm in NSW and I can see the totals for each TOU period - that's what I meant when I said it gave me totals that would always be wrong if the numbers were "corrected" for DST by the accounts dept..... All my meters show me exactly which TOU period they are in, and totals (by register) for each TOU period and exported power for the three meters that are bi-directional.
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby zzsstt » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:04 pm

greenmorry wrote:Will this meter need re-programming for export? And if so, How do I go about getting it done or will the solar installer do it?


You need to employ an electrician, who will request a new bidirectional meter from the power company, and then install it when he gets it. In the meantime the solar installer will not be able to connect the PV system for aything more than a few minutes of testing. However, some solar installer are also able to change the meter, so I'd suggest you contact yours and find out whether he/she is able to, and whether he/she has requested a new meter.... and whether he/she has included it in the price!!


greenmorry wrote:But I find that I'm starting to get a little peaved about having to be a power nazi, and feeling like I'm going back to the "dark ages" just to conserve energy. What ever happened to comfortable living?


Welcome to my world!! And it's only going to get worse with the carbon tax and the Greens running everything.

greenmorry wrote:I don't feel as though we have any really power hungry appliances in our home, we use gas for heat and cooking, low energy lighting, and most things are usually switched off at the wall, so there is very little power used in standby mode. The only thing that would be a constant drain would be the 50" Plasma and theater system in the lounge, but I'm not willing to turn those off at the power point as I find it a pain to have to re-programme them every time I want to watch telly! These don't get used all the time though, as I am finding that I watch tv more in the bedroom these days on the little 24" LED just to save power!


Most modern TV's etc are reasonably good in standby, but the older ones can be fairly hungry. The trouble is that a few hundred watts running 24x7 can add up very quickly....
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Sonnig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:29 pm

When I mentioned the off peak period shifting by 1hr during daylight savings time I was basing this on the clock not changing. I am aware that my retailer, Diamond Energy receives the 30 minute interval data.

I would imagine that SP AusNet charges them based on daylight savings time so I guess it is up to the retailer as to how they apply the data to my bill. I will ask them what timing method they use. The bill totals seemed to align fairly closely with my meter totals but 7am-8am Mon – Fri is not a high usage time for me so I wouldn’t expect a large discrepancy. What is more likely to have happened is that I have waited until midnight to turn on something like the dishwasher whereas potentially I could have done this at 11pm.

greenmorry wrote:I have checked my meter and it is exactly the same unit as sonnig's one, except I don't seem to have the export factors 13,14 and 16, but it does have 07 which I assume is the HWS off peak. Will this meter need re-programming for export? And if so, How do I go about getting it done or will the solar installer do it?

Since your smart meter is only 4 months old it should just need reprogramming. I’m led to believe that some earlier smart meters were not capable of exporting, adding to the angst of those who then had to pay for the upgrade. My retailer said they would just pass on SP AusNet’s reprogramming fee and it was listed on my bill as “Electricity Connection Fee - $20”.

From SP AusNet’s website:

SP AusNet wrote:http://www.sp-ausnet.com.au/?id=2301328 ... 2#changing

Who changes the meter?
SP AusNet will arrange to change the meter once the Photovoltaic (Solar) Generator Connection Form has been received and validated by SP AusNet, and the following documentation provided by your Retailer:
..... Service Order Request for the meter change
..... Electrical Work Request and Certificate of Electrical Safety


My solar installer, Eko Energy (now AGL Solar) took care of the process for me. In addition to this Diamond Energy kept an eye on the process and ensured that any delays were followed up promptly.

It is probably obvious but the export registers will appear once reprogrammed.

Just to try and resolve this issue about “Anytime” tariffs could you please provide details of the meter registers 03, 04, 06 & 07. It would be best if it was done at a time that relates to a billing period and state what totals are listed on the bill.

If my logic is correct then if off peak is only for your HWS then I would think that register 06 should be zero (or maybe equal to register 07 if it is a total). If you are on TOU then your whole house would experience what is typically referred to as off peak so this is when register 06 will increment and register 04 will stop.
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby greenmorry » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:16 pm

I have just gotten off the phone with Lumo after querying the anytime steps 1+2 and Off peak rates. I was informed that, what I get billed for in anytime step 1, is my power usage up to a certain point. Once it reaches this point, all power usage after is billed on the lower anytime step 2 rate. The off peak (2300-0700 and all weekend) is for my HWS only, and to have my house power running on the off peak rate, my meter box will have to be rewired by an Electrician to facilitate this.

I was also informed that I will need to fill out a request form (Lumo are sending it to me now) along with a copy of the paper work from the installer once the PV system has been installed, and send it to Lumo who will then forward it to SP AusNet, who will arrange for the smart meter to be re-programmed to export! Apparently, this takes about a month from install if there are no hiccups!

Should I wait until after the install and meter re-programming to have the meter re-wired for off peak usage, or do it before?

PS. I think I also found where my power usage is coming from, 2 split cycle A/C in standby mode (thanks zzsstt)and a 100w Heated towel rack on 24/7
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Tracker » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:10 pm

greenmorry wrote:and a 100w Heated towel rack on 24/7

Aldi had one on sale last week and an old couple picked one up and I said... "Good luck with you power bill.."
and they looked at me like I was a mass murderer..
Oh well - they will find out.. 100W, 24 hours.... 2.4Kw/D.... 216KwH/Qtr... ????? $40 plus for a warm towel.
greenmorry wrote:Once it reaches this point, all power usage after is billed on the lower anytime step 2 rate.

That's interesting... Most plans like that, that I see JUMP up in price/unit, after the basic usage..
Sonnig wrote:When I mentioned the off peak period shifting by 1hr during daylight savings time I was basing this on the clock not changing. I am aware that my retailer, Diamond Energy receives the 30 minute interval data.

So would this imply that they WILL hopefully, compensate to DST...
Sonnig wrote:Since your smart meter is only 4 months old it should just need reprogramming.

These retailers all work differently.. but I suspect that it would be easier to program a meter at the shop and just swap the meters, but YES, it should be able to be done on site.. BUT , I wonder if many would know how to do it reliably..
..
.
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby zzsstt » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:36 pm

greenmorry wrote:PS. I think I also found where my power usage is coming from, 2 split cycle A/C in standby mode (thanks zzsstt)and a 100w Heated towel rack on 24/7


Just so you understand, not all air conditioners have this 24x7 usage, but many do. The power use is because there is a thermostatically controlled heater built in to the compressor unit to keep it warm and "ready for action". The downside of flicking the circuit breaker off is that the unit cools down, and when cool/cold it "shouldn't" be started. That's why the manuals of many air conditioners suggest not switching the unit on for 24 hours after it is installed and connected.... In summer it probably makes little difference, but in winter if you save the power by switching off the breaker, you should either wait a few hours for the unit to warm up, or take the risk (opinions vary as to how much of a risk it is) of starting it up "cold".

Tracker wrote:These retailers all work differently.. but I suspect that it would be easier to program a meter at the shop and just swap the meters, but YES, it should be able to be done on site..


All the meters that I've been involved with have been replaced rather than reprogrammed, but this is Australia and no two companies ever do the same thing!! My electrician told me that the power companies "lock" the meters such that even a clock being wrong requires a replacement meter. Perhaps they have managed to give themselves two-way access to the smart meters in a way they feel is sufficiently secure to prevent unauthorised "adjustments"...
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby Sonnig » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:58 pm

Tracker wrote:These retailers all work differently.. but I suspect that it would be easier to program a meter at the shop and just swap the meters, but YES, it should be able to be done on site.. BUT , I wonder if many would know how to do it reliably..

Diamond Energy will install their own remotely readable meter if a suitable one is not already installed. For SP AusNet customers with my type of meter they will request SP AusNet to reprogram it. Since mine did not have the external antenna installed at the time I had to wait until they came and did this onsite. Also I don’t believe that my neighbourhood antenna (base station) is running yet.

As I mentioned they passed on this fee without price gouging so the whole process only cost me $20. I was even told that if they could communicate with my meter remotely then there would be no fee. Greenmorry is an SP AusNet customer with the same meter as mine so I don’t see why the process should be any different. What the retailer charges them could be a different story.

I’m not doubting that some retailers might want to go through the process of returning the meter back to base but I can’t see that it is a complicated process to do it onsite. The meter reading involves connecting up to the comms port and downloading the interval data so their equipment could be used to reprogram the meter. The person performing the role may not even need to take any extra actions as their terminal could be scheduled to reprogram the meter the next time the terminal is connected.

zzsstt wrote:Perhaps they have managed to give themselves two-way access to the smart meters in a way they feel is sufficiently secure to prevent unauthorised "adjustments"...

One of the PROs of the smart meter rollout program is that full control can be done remotely once the radio comms are running and systems are commissioned. I would think that the local port would provide the same functionality, hopefully with sufficient security controls.

greenmorry wrote:The off peak (2300-0700 and all weekend) is for my HWS only, and to have my house power running on the off peak rate, my meter box will have to be rewired by an Electrician to facilitate this.

WHAT THE???
If you think about what the Lumo person said logically and you have the meter box rewired to the HWS off peak circuit, your house will not have any power between the hours of 7am – 11pm Mon to Fri.

Your house is connected to what I will call the main circuit (or element). At the moment I would expect that register 04 increments 24hrs a day when power is used by your house. All that will happen when reprogrammed for TOU is that the same connections will remain without rewiring but register 04 will increment from 7am-11pm Mon-Fri and register 06 with increment at all other times while you are importing. The HWS is connected to a time switched circuit and as you mentioned increments register 07.

Your export registers will increment when your solar is generating at a higher rate than your house is consuming. Remember these figures are averaged over 30 minute intervals for our meters.

I’m actually interested to know why you would need register 06 at the moment because I can’t see that it applies to a 24 hr tariff with off peak only for the HWS (register 07). When does it increment?
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby zzsstt » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:39 am

I think there may be some misunderstanding happening here! It would seem that people are getting confused between time of use metering (peak/shoulder/off-peak) and "controlled load". Whilst widely known as "off peak hot water", that service is in fact a controlled load - it runs from a separate meter (or register on a newer meter) and is switched on/off by the power company (va a timer or pulsed signal). "Off peak" on a time of use meter is simply another charge rate applied to the entire house during the night or at weekends. The two systems are not mutually exlcusive, it is entirely possible to have time of use metering for the entire house (except water) and also have a "controlled load" meter or register for the hot water.

I suspect that the two things are becoming confused........
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Re: Hi From a newby

Postby greenmorry » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:49 pm

When I was told about having the meter rewired it did make me think!!!! My thoughts were along the same lines as sonnig IE. no power during off peak! So technically speaking, do I need to have the meter re-programmed for, as zzsstt stated, "Time Of Use" metering for the whole house instead of just "Controlled Load" for the HWS? My thinking is, that being told by Lumo "that it would need re-wiring", was to stop me having it done, so I stay on the higher unit rate!

Thanks for the info guys, its really helping me understand stuff that I normally kept my head in the sand about.

Although my meter does have an external antenna, at this time there are no recieving towers in the area yet, and apparently, according to the meter man, it could be 4-5 years before one is installed and up and running.
Regards, Mark
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