Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

The greenest watt is the one you don't have to create. Energy efficiency is the low hanging fruit of greening our homes. Ask your questions or post your energy efficiency tips in here!

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Tracker » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:43 pm

gyro wrote:I have been able to aquire some huge capacitors to take the load from the inverter to start these motors and the lights no longer dim when they start..

First response is this is logical, if the BIG-Caps are right at the terminals of the Inverter - THE INPUT terminals.
gyro wrote:They are on the AC side there is also some kind of limiter on them, they were originally used to start 500 HP motor on 3 phase

Oi ! now I'm confused..
I would have thought that you were exposing the DC Resistance of the feed cable, with the massive start current, being supplemented by the capacitors. I will actually do that myself
I use the 850mm length of cable from the 3PoleBreaker, as a current shunt..

Still a lot more to do, but it's starting to come together well..
Your system....should work providing you don't rely on solid state circutary too heavily

I have the ability to simply select NORMAL rather than Power-Save Modes. I know eg. that the Air-Cond will not work by itself, as it just pulses on Power-Save mode. With NOTHING else in cct, I have to load with a lamp and then start the RAC.. All works after that.
Again, I am assuming that with various loads on the Cct, there will NEVER be so little power as to prevent a start.. I get the feeling that once started, it does not drop back to Power-Save. (but not proven)

My next project is to build a Garden Shed, having a 1Kw array as the roof.. (Pure Space Limitations)
This will power an genuine ISLAND system, that will be integrated with the UPS concept.. I still can't believe that it's not possible to have such a system, and use it as the Key-Lock for a Grid Interactive system.. Surely, it's just a case of getting the IMPEDANCE right.. ie capacitors and inductors. :|

There just HAS to be a way of using those roof panels, when the Grid Fails, even if it means that you have to LIMIT their generation to the House-Base-Load (to use a crude analogy), and then supply the peaks from the ISLAND operation..
OR - perhaps it will need a current DUMP facility to ensure that the LOAD , ALWAYS exceeds the PV generation.. YES- A lot of feedback needed, but it is feasible..

Everyone says it CAN't happen ! Perhaps they mean - "it's not supposed to happen"... :roll:
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:13 am

Yes I know its not supposed to happen but somehow some of us manage it, I have reasonably large air conditioner which is not on my system mostly because I can’t afford (at this stage) a soft starter for it. However I have 2 smaller ones a 850 watt floor unit in my office with heat output duct out the window (this one not reverse cycle) the other is 1200 watt split system in the studio that is reverse cycle but not used in this mode because we are not up there in winter. The 850 watt unit draws less on hot day than my 1700 watt solar array not including the wind generator so that is the one we use mostly. The 1200 watt system will operate during the day no problems however if I use it too long the batteries have little left for the evening load.
If the grid recoup becomes parity to what it costs in the future I will disconnect my 5 KW array from it, rewire it to 48 VDC and buy another bank of batteries then they can stick their grid power where the sun don’t shine.
gyro
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Tracker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:19 am

gyro wrote:then they can stick their grid power where the sun don’t shine.

That's actually something that I am uncertain about.. In Suburbia, are we legally able to separate from the grid.?
I know of people who claim to have done it, but then I have had comments from folk in the industry , saying that whilst you might flick the switch, you will NEVER get away without a bill..
in the same way as Water and Sewage - They make you pay for the "Availability"..

Not sure that I want to be totally self sufficient. I would love to be so numerically, but would also like to have the assurance that if a vital device fails, then one can flick the MAIN switch back on, and deal with the failure at your own pace..
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:26 am

Tracker wrote:...but would also like to have the assurance that if a vital device fails, then one can flick the MAIN switch back on, and deal with the failure at your own pace...


If you have a spare inverter and more than 1 charging regulator, you are pretty well covered. Sure there is a little bit of time taken - counted in minutes, not hours, for a changeover of an inverter or charging controller, but that's generally a lot less time without power than if the grid goes down after a storm, at least around here.
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5748
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Smurf1976 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:12 pm

With water at least they do charge for service availability even if you choose to not be connected. Their rationale is that they are providing a service by making water available whether or not you actually use it.

Which gives me an idea... I might buy a truck and drive it past the water authority offices. Then I'll send them a bill for carting the freight that I could have carted for them on the basis that I am providing a service by having a truck available whether or not they actually use it.

I might also get myself a bus and try the same trick. For that matter, I might just sit out the front and then send them a bill for the electrical wiring work that I could have done on the basis that having me (a licensed electrician) sitting out the front is providing a service which they must pay for whether used or not.

In the real world, nobody other than these utilities gets away with daylight robbery like this. What next? I walk past a restaurant and am then charged for a 3 course meal that I didn't want but which was available if I chose?
Smurf1976
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1037
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:56 am

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:43 pm

Smurf you are a card that needs to be dealt with.
Yes you are right, I have not used Gosford water for 4 years and they still charge me $7.25 a quarter for the meter.
They recon the meter still has to be read and the paperwork still has to be filled out regardless if I use it or not.
If you don't pay your electricity bill soon enough you will be disconnected I guess that would be one one wat to make a break from them.
gyro
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Tracker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:09 pm

gyro wrote:If you don't pay your electricity bill soon enough you will be disconnected I guess that would be one one wat to make a break from them.

As I said - and I am still not sure - I understand that THEY expect you to pay for the service..
Gas is different, because you have to apply for connection and you CAN cut it off and not pay..

Clearly, with electricity, you could force them to cut it off, by not paying, and heaven only knows how many it happens to each month because the poor bastards just don't have the money..

Does anyone KNOW the rules....?
Are you legally entitled to NOT have electricity connected and NOT pay for the connection.. and here we are clearly referring to CITY living..

Do bear in mind that I have far more to gain from GRID connection.. I am one with the 60c FIT, and in one way I feel guilty and in another, I feel vindicated, that I could see what was coming, and I moved when others said "Bar-Humbug".. I have a credit from my FIT and that even pays the GAS bill, so again, I have more to gain from the GRID..

IMHO - I fully expect that our lousy state Governments will soon find excuses to remove the more generous FIT's. .. I would like to be in a position to move in the direction that best suits ME, when that happens..
I WILL still build my Solar-Powered-Man-Cave, up the back, and I will continue to play and wait for the game to get serious.. :evil:
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Cutting your energy bill.. Implementing Alternate Supply.

Postby Tracker » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:39 am

.
BTW - A few of us have mentioned the PowerStar W7.. as a means of storing power from Cheap Periods, for use at Peak periods, AND also as a true home UPS facility..
The W7 is listed as MARINE inverter system. One where you pull up at the dock and connect to POWER and batteries are charged and when you set sail again, the boat's power switches to battery power.
Notionally, it's exactly what the doctor ordered for a system of Charge during Off-Peak and Consume during Peak.

Something to be considered.. I ... ""Charge"".... the batteries from 2200 to 0700, and if I check just before 0700, the W7 displays "Charger On Float".
Prior to that, (sometime) it would have displayed "Charger On Fast-Charge"
During the charge phase, the charger will have gone thru it's 765 charging steps, until finally sitting at FLOAT for a fixed period (I understand) and then display "Charger on Float" ie completed.
So, for those concerned for power wastage, I note that the A/C current towards the end of the Fast-Charge, is about 1A, and when fully charged (on Float) , it's still 1Amp.
The issue is that with THIS device (W7), it will consume 240W, just whilst sitting there, and so leaving it for hours after full-charge , will come at a cost (albeit at 8c Off-Peak Rates -- 2c per hour?? ))
BUT - definitely, you can't leave it connected to the mains ALL day long, thinking "Well the batteries are charged - It's not using power"
This is why I had to build a rather complex timer/relay interface, but even that is not pefect.
YES - it connects ONLY when needed, for the function desired.. ie CONSUME or CHARGE

WHEN did the A/C current settle down to 1A.. Who knows.. that may have been 0100 or 0630, so I would not know exactly how much power is wasted..
I could break into the W7 and connect a sensing circuit to the "Charger-On-Float" LED, and this could disconnect ALL power from the W7.. HENCE - there would be NO wasted power..

This project is NOT the best way of doing it, and there are ISLAND inverters that do integrate all functions, including Solar-Chargers, far better.
Only other issue - is cost.. I think I paid $500 for the W7 and a proper ISLAND device would cost at least $1500..

Just bear this in mind if thinking about such a system. ... COST Vs BENEFIT 8-)
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:29 am

Hi Tracker
I have removed the charging circuit from my W7 because if it fails the inverter will completely drain the batteries. I let my 1.7 kW solar system with WS-MPPT60 charge the batteries and the inverter will only function from 52 volt (in my 48 volt system) then the battery condition relay drops the inverter off at 10pm or if the voltages drops to 47 volts. This way the maximum use of solar is achieved because I found that leaving the W7 on during off peak times resulted in my WELSEE shutting down early on good clear day. I have 2 x 24 volt smart chargers and generator set up for emergencies as well as my older set of batteries (isolated) but being kept topped up with my 400 watt wind turbine. The WELSEE on this system failed and currently waiting on suitable replacement and connecting the generator directly seems to have done my older set of batteries a lot of good because they are now holding at 52 volts again.
gyro
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:07 pm

Cutting your energy bill.. Implementing Alternate Supply.

Postby Tracker » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:15 pm

gyro wrote:I have removed the charging circuit from my W7 because if it fails the inverter will completely drain the batteries.

IF - I had a 48V battery charger (and it cost me nothing), then I am sure that I would use it separate to the W7.. again, this is my First-Pass on the ChargeNow, UseLater concept.

Again - Phase two will be integration of solar... Understand that I have minimal incentive to go that way NOW, as the 60c GFIT covers me anyway, and the only reason to do so, is that if I want to add panels without violating the GFIT rules, then I have to do it on an Own-Use (Island) basis..
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

PreviousNext

Return to Energy Efficiency

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

new solar power specials
cron