Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Percul8or » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:36 am

Very interesting Gyro
what type of batteries are they? I'll get some if they are that good...
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:50 pm

I have 4 x DiaMec DMU12-100 (these are the oldest) also 8 x DiaMec DMU12-160 set up in 3 lots of 48 volts in series/parallel
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:14 pm

I'll just note that if you are looking for a certain battery capacity, it's best to do it with the minimum number of cells possible. Of course, battery cost comes into the equation, but using lots of 12V batteries is the least ideal way to do it, as it generally maximises the number of cells required, and therefore, the chances of a cell failing. That can cause problems for the rest of the battery bank, you generally cant identify the bad cell in most 12V batteries these days-and it usually means chucking out (to the recyclers of course) the whole 12V battery, rather than a lesser number of cells when 2, 4 or 6V batteries, which can have higher capacities, are used.

Regarding how deeply Gyro is discharging his batteries, the stated voltage isnt really meaningful without knowing what load is on it at that voltage, or if no load, how long there has been no load.
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:56 pm

Hi Gordon
You are right about having so many cells doing the job and having to dispose of a full 12 volt battery if one cell fails. Now you have to go back to counting beans because 2 volt individial batteries are very expensive compared to cheap gel cells. I would love to get a hold on some of the old Telecom glass batteries and the moulds to make the parts myself as they did in the olden days. This way all you need is lead and separators to repair or replace components as necessary if some enterprising fellow came up with the goods on this type of arrangement he would do very well. It's too easy now to just buy gel cells and chuck em when they fail, the only problem is when you don't know a cell is gone the amount of energy wasted trying to charge that system.
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby brarmstr » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:22 pm

Hi i own a powerstar w7 3kw 9kw here are my findings
Amperage Draw on Idle 9amps 108watts the main board has heat issues so a fan over the mainboard (temp outside was 38 degre ssolved the problem, when voltage drops below 10.5 shuts off as it should but there is no function built in to switch it back on when batteries are full, has to be done manually im currently building a unit that will rectify this
On the positive side the Powerstar Does not interfere with receivers or transmitters.
It Claims to peak at 9 kw this is for know more than 10 seconds
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:21 pm

Hi
Yes the power star would be a good unit if you have pumps, refrigerators & freezers that have high current start up but once going are reasonable in consumption. I have been able to aquire some huge capacitors to take the load from the inverter to start these motors and the lights no longer dim when they start. I do still have a short time lag when switching back to the grid, pity I can't fit capacitor to the grid to rectify this problem.
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:45 pm

Gyro, I'm not quite sure where you have these capacitors connected... on the DC side of the inverter they would be taking the load off the batteries, not off the inverter, assuming they were really large. If on the AC side, anything they have "stored" only lasts half a cycle, ie ~ 1/100 second. They will improve the power factor of an induction motor though, meaning less current draw on start up, which would perhaps account for less dimming of your lights.
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:56 pm

Hi Gordon
They are on the AC side there is also some kind of limiter on them, they were originally used to start 500 HP motor on 3 phase, my sparks (electrician) set them up to fire in a "set of 3" whatever that means, I'm guessing because there are 3 of them he has them coming in one after another perhaps with one cycle between. I know one thing is for sure they work well.
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby Tracker » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:37 pm

.
Well, as I had it all anyway, I have pressed ahead, and formally set it all up, but with the need to make it a bit neater..

I have rewired the house to include a special circuit for "Alternate Power"
I have built a timer/interlock device consisting of two timers and relays.
I have a PowerStar W7 PS6048, which I understand is a 6000W inverter.
I have 12 Batteries set up as three banks of 48V and I think I recall a total of about 16,000Wh capacity.

The two timers are set up as..
Timer1 - On between 1400 and 2000hrs -- corresponding to PEAK consumption times.
Timer2 - On between 2200 and o700hrs -- Corresponding to OFF PEAK time.

Timer1 disconnects the House Power and switches over to "Alternate" StandBy Power, via a DIN-Rail relay
This relay ALSO activates a 48V relay, powered by the 48Vdc rail (No 48V=No change-over), and a contact on this relay switches the mode-switch on the W7 to Power-Save Operation.
The result is that 240Vac is fed to the "Alternate House Circuit"
At 2000hrs, the timer opens and House-Power restored to the special-house-circuit.

Timer2 reconnects the Mode-Switch to Power-Save Mode, and also applies House-Power to the W7.
The result is that it enters Battery-Charge mode..

Being all automatic, you do not notice the change-overs, and it works seemlessly.

Now I have the simple capacity to install two Watt/Hour meters on the input and the output, and just measure the practical ratio of Power-In and Power-Out, and then hope that the ratio is 2:1 or better..
I did some crude estimates and think I can achieve this.. The rationale is that in the shoulder period, my power will cost me about 20c/Unit, and IF I can keep it at that figure during the PEAK, then I am the real winner..

I'll let you know the results !

As has been pointed out, (in other words), the actual benefit could be substantially different, IF you are also EXPORTING that unused power, during the PEAK period..
ie. saving power that costs over 40c a unit, and replacing it during Off-Peak at 8c a unit PLUS the exported power, because it was not consumed.
Experimenting over the past week, we had run the Family-Area Air-Cond during the Peak Hours..

BTW - a very big PLUS with this arrangement is that I can be guaranteed to have power on the fridge circuit, whenever I need it (ie during grid-failure)..
I will likely add another relay, powered from the grid, such that dropout causes over-ride and transfer to "Alternate Power".. NO MORE DEFROSTED FRIDGES?? and hundreds in lost food, that the stinking Insurance Companies weazle out of because they don't cover Utility-Loss.
..
.
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Re: Cutting your energy bill.??. Don't try this at home, kids.

Postby gyro » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:05 pm

Tracker you are a legend!
Your system although quite more sophisticated than mine should work providing you don't rely on solid state circutary too heavily because I found it to be most unreliable when it comes to controlling input and output.
Currently my system is just paying for the cost of supply and fitting so basically my electricity at the present amounts to around zero. I think that in 2 to 3 years I will be making a sizeable profit although in 6 to 7 years I will be up for a new set of batteries which compared to my savings should only be a drop in the ocean.
Regards Antonius
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