LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Quokka2 » Fri May 03, 2013 12:08 pm

LEDMAD wrote:We have been purchasing a bunch of bulbs for a LED comparison web site.


Site looks quite promising. The thing that irked me about the single failure we had was that it occcurred by internal short and in so doing, took out the whole lighting circuit with it. If your site records any propensity to failure, it would be helpful to record what actually happens.

The lights we bought were Chinese cheapos ($3 each) and the rest are still working fine.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby LEDMAD » Fri May 03, 2013 1:40 pm

If your site records any propensity to failure, it would be helpful to record what actually happens.


These were the 3 failures,

Viribright SL2220, 3.2W
http://www.ledbenchmark.com/display.php ... ndle+Light
We contacted the manufacturer, but they have done nothing about it.

LED Lighting SA, 12W
http://www.ledbenchmark.com/display.php ... ting+SA+9W
We contacted the manufacturer, they replaced it with a working unit and gave us an extra unit for free.

Mort Bay, MAS100456718, 4W
http://www.ledbenchmark.com/display.php ... +Bay+12546
Haven't contacted the manufacturer as we decided to pull the globe apart to see what went wrong.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby offgridQLD » Fri May 03, 2013 2:02 pm

I would say if you stick to the big brand name LED globes for example Phillips or Ozram you wont have to many issues. The big guys have some kind of a reputation to protect and with false advertising they have something to loose.

The last Phillips led I purchased had a 5 year warranty on the side of the box and 30,000hr expected life span. The 800lm output it was rated at if anything was conservative when doing direct comparisons along side well know 50w halogen and CFL globes with a known Lm output.

Give it a a year or two and you want see any CFL globes on the shelf. I noticed the supermarkets now stock the Osram and Phillips line of LED replacements along side there CFL globes I can see them taking over the all the shelf space.

Just disposing of the CFL globes is a big issue along with many others.

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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Privatteer » Fri May 03, 2013 3:34 pm

I have to agree. Buy the cheaper ones and have to expect failures. I brought Phillips cfl about 4-5 years ago and have only replaced 2 so far.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby LEDMAD » Mon May 06, 2013 11:27 am

offgridQLD wrote:I would say if you stick to the big brand name LED globes for example Phillips or Ozram you wont have to many issues. The big guys have some kind of a reputation to protect and with false advertising they have something to loose.


Yes, there is no doubt that the specifications are more accurate with the brand names. Some of the specifications of lights sold on Ebay are a complete fabrication.

For the globe above the Lumens value was wildly wrong, the angle was completely wrong, the wattage was completely wrong. They claimed ~90 years lifetime and that the lamp was equivalent to a 50W Halogen.

There are also some 2nd tier vendors producing reasonable lights. Lucci LEDlux (Beacon lighting), SAL (Sunny lighting) and Brightgreen come to mind.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby offgridQLD » Mon May 06, 2013 11:56 am

90 years that a good one :lol:

That link you gave where you can select from a range of bulbs and compare I don't agree with the lm output number for the different globes to the right.

My view is a quality 50w halogen is closer to 900lm. They have 13w cfl down at around 800lm. I just replaced near new 15w CFL phillips with Phillips 9.5w LED's rated at 800lm and they had significantly more light output than the 15w clf.

It was really noticeable in the one open plan room were the lighting is divided into two light banks made up of six down light fittings. Six over the lounge and six over the dining area. We replaced the six over the dining area with the 9.5w led' s and for a while we kept the six old 15w CFL over the lounge. Switching between the two was just a joke how low the output of the 15w CFl was even when warmed up. I made a small video of it I will see if I can dig it up but it doesn't do it justice as visually they look double the output with 40% less power.

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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby LEDMAD » Mon May 06, 2013 7:58 pm

offgridQLD wrote:My view is a quality 50w halogen is closer to 900lm.


Also over the weekend I was sent the details of a very interesting 2010 presentation from energyrating.gov.au on slide 17 they quote the range of MR16 output values is 540 lm to 1000 lm with an average of 710 lm. This was from a sample of 55 different bulbs. This lines up well with our own value of 765 lm.

But clearly there is wide range of bulbs available. There is also the difference between MR16 and GU10 globes and significant differences when different transformers are used. So there isn't really one 'standard' lumen value for halogens.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby offgridQLD » Mon May 06, 2013 8:17 pm

Yes I was referring to MR16 just noticed they were gu10's in the comparison table. From my limited experience the 240v Gu10's don't usually have the output of the 12v mr16's.

One thing I would change if I was to replace all my led's over again is go for lower wattage = lower lm output as they are a little to bright. Instead of 9.5w led to replace a 15w CFl I would go with 6w .

Or even better use bulbs that can be dimmed . The only issue big reason i didn't pay much attention to my led's being dimmer compatible is dimmers if the dimmers use a ( triac ):?: Being off grid and powering the house with a inverter they really mess up the wave characteristic of the power and my inverter has a fit trying to deal with just one triac on a heat gun I cant imagine it try to deal with 60 or so of them with one on every light in the house.

I'm sure there are other dimmer styles out there perhaps current limiting control would work fine on a led.I havnt looked to see what is out there.

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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby davidg » Tue May 07, 2013 12:18 am

Smurf1976 wrote:One thing I do note is that there is no obvious advantage of a CFL over LED in any situation I can think of.Most of my lights are still incandescent. Maybe time for an upgrade soon....

At least one specific advantage to both LED and incandescent, is cold.

If it gets too cold CFL and any type of fluro will not even start, let alone produce light. Both LED and incandescent both work in cold and sub zero temps.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Bthree » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:30 pm

Purchased three Philips Master series 10w LED MR16 down lights for our dining area for a try.

http://www.ledbenchmark.com/display.php ... D+10W+MR16

I have purchased a few other types over the last couple of years but they have all failed to come close to a standard 50w halagon globe and have not met the wife approval.
Mainly due to lack of brightness But a big factor is the beam width and although all have been 60 degree the halagon has much better coverage for light output and what I call splatter beyond the 60 deg. Focused LEDs have a definate cutoff at 60 deg point.

Bottom line is the Philips 10 watters come very close visually to a 35 watt 60 deg halagon and would have been acceptable ..... BUT .... It is very quiet in our house, and when these Philips lights are on a buzz can be heard.
It appears from the spec they have a small fan within.
These are the 2012 model and have now been superseded by a 2013 version which is convection cooled with fins creating an air path from the room to the ceiling, the 2012 version above was a classic shape without fins.
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