LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Tracker » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:07 am

dmaunder wrote: Is the issue with them flickering when doing one on one replacements still a problem?

Just replacing a globe or rather substituting a globe, is not the best way to go IMHO.
You would replace the whole fitting, complete with controller. This will be determined by exactly what you have now.

Older Halogens had simple 12V transformers (AC) and the old globe would conduct would conduct on both halves of the cycle. IF - you replace that globe with an LED equivalent, then it works on DC and hence will conduct on half the cycle and hence produce a 50 cycle flicker.

Some older halogens might have been connected to Electronic controls..Rather than transformers that got REAL hot. Problem with many of these Electronic Controllers is they often will not work at the LOW currents drawn by LED equivalents

Modern LED controllers are FAR more efficient and hence supply a controlled power to the LED device and hence enhance the ultimate life of the LED's themselves, and when you are talking about 80,ooo hours, that can be significant..

There are other options with LED lamps.. eg.. If you can connect between the lamp locations, you can have multiple lamps on the one controller, but all that starts to complicate things..
..
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby bpratt » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:11 pm

What I'm keen to find are LED's that work with dimmers like the Lutron Graphic Eye 3106, and not just the LED replacementfor the MR16's , but also the little 20w bi-pin halogens.

The room has around 24 of those little ones, as well as about 6 of the 50w MR16's. Fortunately not all the lights are on at the same time.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Tracker » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:46 pm

LED-Ad.jpg




How coincidental...?

http://www.anyware.com.au/LED_LIGHTS.aspx

I especially like the FLOOD-LIGHTS
..
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby bpratt » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Unfortunately there's no listing there for the little 20w bi pin replacements, or for that matter something that does similar to what I'm after.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Tracker » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:06 pm

[Moderator- removed quoting of entire previous posting]

I feel that is why I have considered it better to replace everything..

In order to create an efficient device with adequate cooling etc., it's neigh impossible to get the POWER that we want in a direct replacement,
OR, alternatively, if you can get the physical replacement, "WILL IT LAST".

Buggar - LED's are here, but they are not the nice Pin-for-Pin replacement we were waiting for... :?
...
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby bpratt » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:30 pm

[Moderator- removed re-posting of entire previous 2 posts]

True, replacing them completely is one option... something that will be a lot easier to do at the start of a project, than to retrofit.

The good thing is that this will be possible when we sell here and move to a new house and build my new HT room.

Still have to find a led that lights in a similar fashion to these starbursts and is dimmable via a Lutron GE. ;)
Last edited by Gordon-Loomberah on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed excessive quoting
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby dmaunder » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:51 pm

Peter,

How do the Ledware units compare to the Philips ones that you recommended? They are about half the price, but I have an account at Anyware so can get them wholesale.
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby zzsstt » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:46 am

Update:

It is now 18 or so months since I purchased a set of MR16 LED's for testing. I purchased a selection of 5W, 6W and later some 11W units. They came with the normal "50,000" hour life expectancy claims. When I first received them I noted that they (by my meter) they produced significantly less light than the 20W energy saving halogens that they replaced but because of the blue tinge to the light they appeared reasonably bright to the eye.

The lights have been used in various ways. Some, mostly 11W'ers, have been above my kitchen bench, where they are used for 30minutes or so as task lighting perhaps every couple of days. Some have been in my kids rooms, where they are used for perhaps 2 hours each day on average, more in winter than summer. The kids room fixture is back to back (opposite sides of a wooden beam) with an identical fixture, that is on the same switch and which is fitted with 20W energy saving halogens that were 18 months old when the test started.

Results:

The 11W'ers (30minute every few days) appear much the same as when purchased. Still blueish light, and much the same intensity.

The 5W and 6W lights (several hours each day) have lost all trace of blue, and now seem fairly yellow. Intensity seems much reduced and (triggering this update) one unit failed yesterday. In comparison the 20W energy saving halogens (in an identical fixture switched on the same circuit) now appear to be brighter than the LED's, and whilst being twice the age are still going strong.

When purchased these LEDs cost about $13 each, in contrast to the $7 for the 20W halogens. They save 15W, which over 18 months equates to 365x1.5x2x.015=16.4kwh which at 24c/kwh is just less than $4 in saving, vs. an extra $6 in cost. So a net loss of $2 on the first unit to fail.

I'll try to get some meter readings tonight when it's dark!
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby Tracker » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:35 pm

.
It is just SOooo disappointing that led's seem to be not meeting life expectations.. the thought that changing the whole house will see an end to replacement worries, does not inspire confidence..

Also , the rate at which we are seeing change in designs, makes you wonder what will happen in five years, if replacements are needed.

I can't help the thought that retrofiting old halogen fittings, could be a good move, as there is likely to always be the market for those bulbs... and replacements will still keep improving..
Even to the point that I wonder if fitting old style halogen fittings and LEDs would be a wise move...

30years ago , we when mad and fitted PLC fittings in corridor areas and the kitchen and bathrooms..
We are totally taken by surprise when a globe fails.. at 13w I cant see any advantage in changing these fittings and what a job, with about 150mm. Downers.. I am thinking that I would be better to try and FIT LEDs into those fittings, if ever...
..
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Re: LED Lights, Marketing vs reality. Mk II

Postby zzsstt » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:05 pm

Tracker wrote:It is just SOooo disappointing that led's seem to be not meeting life expectations.. the thought that changing the whole house will see an end to replacement worries, does not inspire confidence..


When I was young, one of the standard "conspiracy theories" was that a man had invented a light bulb that never burnt out, and had been paid by the light bulb companies never to market it because it would ruin them. When the initial claims of long life for CFLs were made, followed by claims of >25 years for LEDs were first made, I doubted that they would be accurate for the same reason that the conspiracy theory stated the man had been paid off - if the only market for light bulbs was newly built houses, most of the suppliers would be out of business very quickly! So there were only two possibilities. Either the life of these new globes wouldn't be all that much better than the ones they replaced, or we would see an ongoing change of "fitting" in order to maintain the market through designed obsolesence. As yet I haven't noticed any significant move away from the standard edison screw / bayonet / MR16 / GU10 fittings that have been around for years. I would suggest that only when the manufacturers start pushing new fittings should we believe that the globes might truely last more than a few years!
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