LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby karlajensen » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:02 pm

ZZSSTT

Indeed LOL !!!!!!!!!!

only fluro I'd consider in the kitchen would be a T5 hanging from stainless steel cables that looked nice.

They are pretty thin on the ground and pretty expensive too and it would mean I would have had to patch 6 downlight holes and re-paint the ceiling.

Its a big room and of course you cant paint a corner of it hence quickly went into option B which was LED's.
If I were building a new house from scratch it would certainly be along the lines you suggest.
8E + 8W + 8Nth Garage CMS2000-1 with ~4500W in 3 strings of 8.
Fronius Galvo 3.0 inverter with ~6.6kW panels
12x ZNShine + 12x 180W Solarfuns both NW + ZNShine 12x190 facing SE.
Edwards Solar Hot water


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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby Bthree » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:31 am

Purchased 12 3x3w GU10 240volt LED CREE lights from ebay and 12 GU10 lamp holders (actually no physical holder just the socket and a terminal block pic here http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0225532289 ) to replace the 50w halogens with transformers (electronic ones).

The lamp holders come with a three way terminal block Active, Earth, Neutral
Intention was to use the two core Active and Neutral fly lead from the transformers to connect the 240volts to these holders.

Question.... Do I need to run the earth wire, this will involve buying 12 new three core fly leads ?
Last edited by Bthree on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Network = Powercor .. Retailer = Origin .. Installed Christmas 2008
Latronics PV-1200 feed by 8xTrina TSM DC-01 .. 170watt = 1360watts DC in .. 1096watts AC out .. 5+years later 990watts ac out
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby karlajensen » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:01 pm

no but some fixtures have an earth connection if they do, then its good practise to use it!

but be careful that the cable used is good for 240V as some cable used is not and if you are joining existing 12V cable to make the distance to where the GU10 fittings are you may run into this issue.

If unsure lighting cable is cheap as chips, just replace it.

ensure the new LEDs also have reasonable ventilation and they will live longer
8E + 8W + 8Nth Garage CMS2000-1 with ~4500W in 3 strings of 8.
Fronius Galvo 3.0 inverter with ~6.6kW panels
12x ZNShine + 12x 180W Solarfuns both NW + ZNShine 12x190 facing SE.
Edwards Solar Hot water


Luck Favours the well prepared.
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby Bthree » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:23 pm

karlajensen wrote:no but some fixtures have an earth connection if they do, then its good practise to use it!
Is there a standard that defines if a metal fixtrue must be earthed in this application ?

karlajensen wrote:but be careful that the cable used is good for 240V as some cable used is not and if you are joining existing 12V cable to make the distance to where the GU10 fittings are you may run into this issue.
Whatever the outcome I will be using only 240v rated plug and cable !

karlajensen wrote:If unsure lighting cable is cheap as chips, just replace it.
Theres a thought, 240V extension leads from cheap shops will work, but the cost ?

karlajensen wrote:ensure the new LEDs also have reasonable ventilation and they will live longer
Thanks did not think of "live longer" as they only run at around 60 degrees case temp I was going to cover them, now thinking of using a 100mm length of storm water PVC pipe around the fitting !
Network = Powercor .. Retailer = Origin .. Installed Christmas 2008
Latronics PV-1200 feed by 8xTrina TSM DC-01 .. 170watt = 1360watts DC in .. 1096watts AC out .. 5+years later 990watts ac out
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby Bthree » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:25 pm

karlajensen wrote:no but some fixtures have an earth connection if they do, then its good practise to use it!
Is there a standard that defines if a metal fixtrue must be earthed in this application ?

karlajensen wrote:but be careful that the cable used is good for 240V as some cable used is not and if you are joining existing 12V cable to make the distance to where the GU10 fittings are you may run into this issue.
Whatever the outcome I will be using only 240v rated plug and cable !

karlajensen wrote:If unsure lighting cable is cheap as chips, just replace it.
Theres a thought, 240V extension leads from cheap shops will work, but the cost ?
I should have pointed out all the existing transformers are plugged into "fan sockets"

karlajensen wrote:ensure the new LEDs also have reasonable ventilation and they will live longer
Thanks did not think of "live longer" as they only run at around 60 degrees case temp I was going to cover them, now thinking of using a 100mm length of storm water PVC pipe around the fitting ![/quote]
Network = Powercor .. Retailer = Origin .. Installed Christmas 2008
Latronics PV-1200 feed by 8xTrina TSM DC-01 .. 170watt = 1360watts DC in .. 1096watts AC out .. 5+years later 990watts ac out
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby karlajensen » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:56 pm

60deg is still pretty hot to touch.

I re-insulated my roof and in doing so disturbed all the "fluff" that was blown in, I dug it up, put down quiet batts then reapplied the fluff over the top. in doing so a few bits and pieces ended up sitting on the Halogens i very rarely use....

Anyhow ran the halogens for 30mins or so the other day and whalah FIRE!

....no flame but charred material and smoke enough that I went up into the roof with an extinguisher in hand!

My 2c with blow in insulation, wind disturbs the insulation around the edges and ends up everywhere risk is that over time enough ends up around the fittings that its dangerous as a fire risk hence LED's are the way to go in any case
8E + 8W + 8Nth Garage CMS2000-1 with ~4500W in 3 strings of 8.
Fronius Galvo 3.0 inverter with ~6.6kW panels
12x ZNShine + 12x 180W Solarfuns both NW + ZNShine 12x190 facing SE.
Edwards Solar Hot water


Luck Favours the well prepared.
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby Sandivee » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:21 pm

From the very first post on this topic in Sept 2009 I spent a fair amount of time researching LED lighting. I even started a business out of it.

So having spend all this time figuring out which LED lamp to replace my halogens with I went on a journey through 1x3W, 3x1W, 5x1W, 1x6W, 3x2W, 3x3W, 7W, 9W, 10W lamps, made by various manufacturers and chip types such as cree, epistar, ledison, luxeon, brtled and a couple of other unknown brands.

I ended up using the Philips 7W GU10 lamps in 2700K (luxeon rebel), they also come in 4200K and 3000K (Cree).

I converted to GU10 and found that these lamps are the CLOSEST thing to a 50W halogen in a GU10. Spot on colour, rated at ONLY 270lm the output is brighter than any other LED or CFL GU10 I've tried. 40,000 hours to 70% lumen decay and solid state.

The actual output figures are so far different from other manufacturers that I started looking at test results from manufacturers to see what the go was. Besides the fact that barely any tested the lamps output and only quoted the chips output, it was rare to see anything below 270lm and I'd think it was mainly due to best case scenario vs. tested realities.

The only downfall I found was that the fittings are a decent size and are quite heavy. The 10W MR16 version is actually very much identical to a 50W halogen, but has a small fan in it and only 25,000 hours to 70%, but is light and easy to use, works on min 20W load transformers also. Very impressed, costly though for the product ~10W = $75 each and 7W = $65 each.

So we now have the Philips 7W lamps in the living area, 3x1W lamps in the bedroom and bathroom which I found to be quite appropriate. Very soft mood lighting in the bedroom worked out well and the sharp brightness of the bathroom removed. People obviously have different tastes but it worked out well for me.

Our kitchen now has led strip lighting under and above our cabinets in cool white and a warm white strip under the bottom cupboards. At 24W for task lighting rather than the 6 x 50W halogens we had, it looks and feels great and I can see even better when I'm cutting up vegies as well as the ambient lighting.

Loving the new technology, I am now down to less than 3.8kWh a day on average with no solar PV or HW.

Cheers,

James
Australian LED Lighting Solutions
http://www.LightingMatters.com.au
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby karlajensen » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:05 pm

Nice one mate
confirmed everything I found too.

As for your daily energy use, you are a true star very well done indeed.


On that note -my trip to Melbourne last month -we were (the 3.5year old and myself) for a month
while I was away, although it was quite hot in Perth my average daily use was 50KWhrs a day.
now that I have returned it is 6Kwhrs.

The user obviously is a large factor! hence I highly admire you and your familys efforts

Well done.

Now for the next step -if you have the roof, get the panels, save the rest of the world 1W at a time.
and make yourself a buck along the way
8E + 8W + 8Nth Garage CMS2000-1 with ~4500W in 3 strings of 8.
Fronius Galvo 3.0 inverter with ~6.6kW panels
12x ZNShine + 12x 180W Solarfuns both NW + ZNShine 12x190 facing SE.
Edwards Solar Hot water


Luck Favours the well prepared.
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby TerryB » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:04 pm

Some time ago I replaced around a dozen halogen downlights with the 3x3W Cree bulbs that have been mentioned here (GU10 fittings) - overall I was reasonably happy with them but although they were fine in the areas that were a bit overlit with the halogens they were a bit dim in our family room which has a pool table (fine when you were watching TV but not so good for playing pool/snooker). I was tossing up putting in the 10w LEDS in that room which my brother had tested in his house but the price was putting me off. The other day on eBay I noticed an Australian seller advertising 6W LED's and promoting them as 30% brighter than the 3x3W Cree's - the price was very good at $90 delivered for 6 bulbs (so $15 each) so I ordered 6. I was somewhat skeptical that they would deliver on their promise given the cheap price but I received them yesterday (only ordered over the Easter weekend so very fast delivery) and to my surprise they are significantly brighter than the other ones and I can now play pool again without eyestrain! I don't have a 50W halogen any more to compare to but I would say they are very close in brightness and would be an acceptable replacement in just about every situation.

They are being sold on eBay by a seller called eco_light_up
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Re: LED replacements for Halogen downlights - ISSUES

Postby karlajensen » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:07 pm

same ones I used and I'm happy too, colour difference between the six although its there its barely visible unless you point it out
8E + 8W + 8Nth Garage CMS2000-1 with ~4500W in 3 strings of 8.
Fronius Galvo 3.0 inverter with ~6.6kW panels
12x ZNShine + 12x 180W Solarfuns both NW + ZNShine 12x190 facing SE.
Edwards Solar Hot water


Luck Favours the well prepared.
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karlajensen
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