Induction or not??

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Induction or not??

Postby chrisv » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:57 pm

Hi All,

I am trying to decide whether to go for an induction or gas stove. I will be installing a 5kW PV system, we do not have reticulated gas so would need to use bottle gas. I realise that PV is greener than gas yet wonder if it still so if the induction uses large amounts of energy in comparison. I am very much attracted to induction due to its features and the control one has over the heat etc.

I have absolutely no idea how much power induction cooking uses in comparison to an electric stove.

We will be using an electric fan forced oven.

I will probably have to get gas installed to boost the evac tube hot water system. Also, would I just have a booster fitted or would it be more efficient to run the hot water via a instantaneous heater closer to the showers. I am thinking the if the heater thermostat is set for say 64deg, it would not kick in until the hot water temp drops below that. ????????

Any advice would be most welcome and appreciated.

TIA

Cheers.

Chris.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby Tracker » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:02 pm

.
Seeking advice without pertinent info., does make it hard.. Like - where are you.. ;)

Where you are will obviously effect the choice of Hot-Water-Service/Heater, which to me, is the most critical choice that you need to make. Everything else, revolves around that choice.

There are lots of threads detailing the differences and benefits of different HWS options.
IF - your HWS choice is such that you rarely need 'Boosting" then you may be able to go for LPG, despite it's being the most expensive gas available. Town gas is the cheapest, except where you use so little gas, that you are basically paying the Service-Charges, which can amount to a good deal. Do you need gas-space heating?

My HWS heats the water to 60c, and by law, this is thermostatically mixed to 48c (my choice), and this water then flows through an Infinity Heater, which is set (when needed) to 42c.
The result is that we have the Gas-Booster off, for most of the year, making Town-Gas connection wasteful.

Turn to the stove... Induction is something that you should stay clear of, because of all the HIDDEN costs.
First, they are the most expensive to purchase. Then they are incredibly expensive to repair, and there is a fair chance that after a number of years, the agent might not keep parts anyway.
Finally - you need all new Cooking Pots etc. The only positive is that they are one of the most electricity efficient, because there is minimal power lost in waste heat..

Many of the other questions are going to need an understanding of your house, it's location, orientation, and overall design.

Hope this gets you started in the right direction.
..
.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby chrisv » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:13 pm

Hi Tracker and thank you for your reply.

[quote="Tracker"].
Seeking advice without pertinent info., does make it hard.. Like - where are you.. ;)

Just slightly south east of Adelaide.

Where you are will obviously effect the choice of Hot-Water-Service/Heater, which to me, is the most critical choice that you need to make. Everything else, revolves around that choice.

I have absolutely no doubt that I will be using a solar hot water system. My question relates to how I would go about boosting (if at all) the system during winter. I am leaniong toward running the hot water through an instantaneous heater installed close to the showers. ( It would appear that this is the same as you do.) I am hoping to get some response from those that have experience in this method and their experienc as to its viability or otherwidse.


There are lots of threads detailing the differences and benefits of different HWS options.
IF - your HWS choice is such that you rarely need 'Boosting" then you may be able to go for LPG, despite it's being the most expensive gas available. Town gas is the cheapest, except where you use so little gas, that you are basically paying the Service-Charges, which can amount to a good deal. Do you need gas-space heating?

Indeed and I have read a lot (most) of them. My quandry is not whether or not I use gas but the way to use it. I will need to have LPG installed for the stove anyway.

My HWS heats the water to 60c, and by law, this is thermostatically mixed to 48c (my choice), and this water then flows through an Infinity Heater, which is set (when needed) to 42c.
The result is that we have the Gas-Booster off, for most of the year, making Town-Gas connection wasteful.

Your system sounds like what I am talking about and since I will be installing gas, this is probably the way I would go.

Turn to the stove... Induction is something that you should stay clear of, because of all the HIDDEN costs.
First, they are the most expensive to purchase. Then they are incredibly expensive to repair, and there is a fair chance that after a number of years, the agent might not keep parts anyway.
Finally - you need all new Cooking Pots etc. The only positive is that they are one of the most electricity efficient, because there is minimal power lost in waste heat..

Wow.....and I got so exited too.

Anyone have a different oppinion or actual experience with induction??


Many of the other questions are going to need an understanding of your house, it's location, orientation, and overall design.

The house is at 35deg 39.47min South and 137deg 36.56min East and will be facing approx 10 deg east of true north. The house will be two storey with a scillion roof with a 4 degree fall from north to south and will have an area of about 234 sq meters to work with. That should be sufficient to accommodate both the PV and Solar hot water system.

Hope this gets you started in the right direction.

It certainly has and I thank you.

Cheers.

Chris.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby Tracker » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:11 am

.
I have absolutely no doubt that I will be using a solar hot water system.


Great start

My question relates to how I would go about boosting (if at all) the system during winter. I am leaniong toward running the hot water through an instantaneous heater installed close to the showers.


Only you know the construction/orientation of the house/bathrooms etc.
Consider, where the Solar Panels (HWS) will best be located..
How can you mount the LPG gas heater closer to showers etc, given the technical problems of installing gas heaters.
You idea of adding the Gas-Heater close to the main usage areas, is obviously energy efficient, but so too is mounting the Solar Water tank and panels .. ie. minimum pipe run lengths..

..( It would appear that this is the same as you do.) I am hoping to get some response from those that have experience in this method and their experience as to its viability or otherwise.


Again - it is exactly what I now do, except that we have never had to actually use the Gas-Reheater..
It's turned off and will remain that way, until we can prove that we will survive winter without any need to extra heat.

..... My quandry is not whether or not I use gas but the way to use it. I will need to have LPG installed for the stove anyway.


Again, my feeling is to have gas as a safety re-heater, for when you do run out of HW.

Anyone have a different opinion or actual experience with induction??


Having worked on a good many of them - I suspect that I might be amongst the more experienced.
If you have the money - go for it.. After replacing all your pots, you will find that Induction is second to none for cooking response. It's the POT itself that does the heating. BUT- Being totally ELECTRONIC, they are amongst the most prone to failure.. I have replaced a few, with the equivalent ceramic-cook-top, because the replacement NEW ceramic was far less than the repair cost of the Induction.


The house is at 35deg 39.47min South and 137deg 36.56min East and will be facing approx 10 deg east of true north. The house will be two storey with a scillion roof with a 4 degree fall from north to south and will have an area of about 234 sq meters to work with. That should be sufficient to accommodate both the PV and Solar hot water system.


Do I assume that the PV and Solar HWS roof systems will be frame mounted?
.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby Helipos » Tue May 04, 2010 8:08 pm

Your pots working or not depends entirely on their construction material. Most normal induction cookers need a ferromagnetic material, steel/iron ect. Some that have been designed for it will work with any metallic material.

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Re: Induction or not??

Postby gis_mapper » Tue May 11, 2010 11:34 am

Hi,

We've had an induction cooktop for over 5 years and I would never go back to anything else. I'm currently visiting my parents house and they use gas. it is ridiculously slow to boil water ... with induction you can actually see the water start to move / bubble after just a few seconds! Plus you can melt / cook chocolate directly.

Sure it was expensive up front, but we have had no issues with it ... it was bought through Kleenmaid, but there is a local repairer who can source parts if ever required.

I was also told when purchasing it that it was more cost-effective to use than other cooking sources. I haven't tried to test this theory, but believe it to be true as our power bill is definitely not astronomical.

Regards.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby gully » Tue May 11, 2010 4:40 pm

Do these cooktops have any energy ratings? Eg. wattage - I can't imagine them being cheaper than gas, and I'd think there'd be some appreciable losses in induction. (?) Faster is definitely more convenient, although I wouldn't say gas was slow to cook with.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby Robert11 » Tue May 11, 2010 10:02 pm

We have a half induction, half ribbon cooktop and are on a 1.5kW grid connect system. We use the induction every day and seldom use more than the system produces.

In terms of pots you don't have to get fancy new ones, if you can stick a fridge magnet to it on the bottom it will work. Very responsive to.

We have some old 70s enameled pots, a cast iron pot and fry pan and a contemporary version of a traditional stove top kettle and all work beautifully. We hardly ever use the ribbon element now at all. We also have a cheapy wok that works fantastically. The kettle boils easily in under 2 minutes also.

We wouldn't go back, well worth the little bit extra and as the pot becomes the element there's no excess heat from burning gas or longer cooling times to add heat into your room, it's safer too, it can't go on until there is a suitable pot on it. Our electrolux came with a five year warranty and it's had no sign of problems at all.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby 470rigby » Wed May 12, 2010 5:16 pm

chrisv wrote:would it be more efficient to run the hot water via a instantaneous heater closer to the showers. I am thinking the if the heater thermostat is set for say 64deg, it would not kick in until the hot water temp drops below that. ????????


You can't do that. When fitted with an adjustable thermostat (Temperature Controller) , Gas Instantaneous HWS units are usually limited to 50 Deg. This to prevent the possibility of scalding.
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Re: Induction or not??

Postby chrisv » Wed May 12, 2010 5:39 pm

Tracker wrote:.

The house is at 35deg 39.47min South and 137deg 36.56min East and will be facing approx 10 deg east of true north. The house will be two storey with a scillion roof with a 4 degree fall from north to south and will have an area of about 234 sq meters to work with. That should be sufficient to accommodate both the PV and Solar hot water system.


Do I assume that the PV and Solar HWS roof systems will be frame mounted?
.
.



Yes Tracker, they will be frame mounted at (from memory) 31 degrees.

470rigby wrote:
chrisv wrote:would it be more efficient to run the hot water via a instantaneous heater closer to the showers. I am thinking the if the heater thermostat is set for say 64deg, it would not kick in until the hot water temp drops below that. ????????


You can't do that. When fitted with an adjustable thermostat (Temperature Controller) , Gas Instantaneous HWS units are usually limited to 50 Deg. This to prevent the possibility of scalding.


OK, 50 degrees then.

Thanks for the info re Induction cooking. Please feel free to comment if you have first hand experience. Tracker, having worked with this technology advises against it. Do you agree???

Cheers

Chrisv
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