What's next (after the end of the GFiT)?

New to renewable energy? Have questions? Here's a great place to ask them and view information about wind and solar power basics.

What's next (after the end of the GFiT)?

Postby pat » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:58 am

Ok its 2016 and comeing to the end of the 60c feed in tariff so what to do with your solar system ...I have a 2kw system on roof and sure don't want to receive 6c a kw ..We installed back in 2010 and have enjoyed no bills since then , the system cost over $6500 so I guess you could say we prepaid electricity acc for the first few years but now are in the sweet spot and wondering which way to go...Both retired so dont have a lot of cash to splash....any sugestions..Pat
Last edited by Gordon-Loomberah on Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: made subject line more descriptive of contents
pat
Solar Evangelist
Solar Evangelist
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:22 pm

Re: Whats next

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:16 am

I don't know how your panels are arranged ATM, but I'd think about moving or adding panels to be facing E and W such that you cover your entire day's energy use on moderately cloudy days, and move your loads to fit your solar production. That will mostly avoid imports, other than on heavy overcast days. On sunny days, or when you are away you will be getting your 6c or 4.? cents which I think they recently dropped it to in NSW, or nothing at all for many country areas, but commercial batteries in a box such as Tesla, LG, Simpliphi etc are not an economic proposition at this stage IMO, with a costing of well over $1000/kWh.
A DIY LiFePO4 battery (@less than half the cost) could be charged during the day instead of exporting to the grid, and can be used to cover your night time loads (and blackouts), but there is a bit of effort involved to get it up and running, plus the cost of an off-grid inverter.
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5327
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Re: Whats next

Postby pat » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:43 pm

Thanks for your reply Gordon, I think its a single string of twelve panels and faces north with trina panels and xantrax inverter ,if I was a bit younger and still working I would be thinking about tesla battery storage , love to be able to get of the grid like yourself ... Two battery packs (14kwh )and inverter to match would cost about $10,000 if my cals are right plus a few more panels and the cost goes up ... I dont mind your first choice of east west panels and useing as much power through the day, but it still irks me to think that we may get nothing or just 4c for power produced by our system ...So much for the government encourageing home owners to go solar then drop them in a bucket of cold water in six years .. One would think even more so now that the incentive would be greater for solar not less..
pat
Solar Evangelist
Solar Evangelist
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:22 pm

Re: Whats next

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:12 pm

The Tesla battery wont allow you to go off-grid directly at this stage, that is up to the inverter, and AFAIK at the moment none of the options will allow off-grid, but I expect that to change in the foreseeable future. Certainly SMA are working on something now. In email exchanges with the Oz Fronius agents I've been told the Fronius Symo Hybrids will be able to maintain power during a blackout (I think this is only after ~April), but if you exceed their output rating, it will drop out, and will not re-start until the grid comes back up.

The cost of 2 Powerwalls plus suitable inverter will be significantly more than $10000. The $3000US that's been bandied about a lot is US wholesale pricing - allow for exchange rate, add freight, GST, and all the other costs and you come up with a number that will put more than a few people off the idea I suspect. It really depends on how you value battery storage- if it is just a plan to save money, then it wont work right now, but if you can get a system that supplies power during blackouts, the value increases significantly. What is a freezer full of food worth, or being able to watch the TV with a cold beer, or not needing candles to see at night? ;)
I expect the price will come down over time though.
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5327
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Re: Whats next

Postby pat » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:05 pm

Its great to get your very informative replys and yes I realise my cals were very general in the costing department with going off the grid ,my concern is what to do next when 60c feed in tariff ends .. Battery storage is costly as you pointed out and maybe not for me ....The idea of being self reliant sounds good but its got to be practical also ... I bet as the year progresses there will be a lot of solar owners in nsw wondering what is their next best move....Pat...
pat
Solar Evangelist
Solar Evangelist
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:22 pm

Re: Whats next

Postby gr3gw » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:41 pm

Thanks for starting the discussion, Pat.

I'm in NSW, currently get the 60¢ feed-in tariff using gross metering. Should I stay on gross metering or swap to net? We don't use much electricity during the day, main usage is during the evening. My goal is to use all my home-generated electricity before having to buy extra from the grid.

It looks to me that with net metering I will waste most of my generation because it happens during the day when we don't need it. I don't understand the information on the NSW Government's website (http://www.resourcesandenergy.nsw.gov.a ... nus-scheme).

I will look at battery storage but the picture is far from clear at the moment and if it's quite expensive, I won't be able to go that way.
gr3gw
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:49 am

Re: Whats next

Postby davidg » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:38 pm

gr3gw wrote:I'm in NSW, currently get the 60¢ feed-in tariff using gross metering. Should I stay on gross metering or swap to net? We don't use much electricity during the day,

I will look at battery storage but the picture is far from clear at the moment and if it's quite expensive, I won't be able to go that way.


Net will be far better than gross once you fit drops ........ you will be far better off that way. Changing when you use things will help. ie run the dishwasher/s during the day rather than at night for instance likewise, other appliances that can be programmed to do so, unless there is someone home.

Battery storage, will always be "expensive" for the foreseeable future. Getting the battery pack/bank wrong will be one of the biggest issues consumers are likely to be forced to face into the future.
Hybrid & Off-grid Systems - You could store Sun to use later- I Do!
SELECTRONIC SPMC-482 7.5kW, 7.2kW's of Arrays

with AC-Coupled Grid-Connected Inverters,
1100Ah 48V Bank

Auto Backup Genset
PVOutput Stats

We Sparkys light up your life :)
User avatar
davidg
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 pm
Location: Dandenong VIC- GRID - Power Retailers are a pain

Re: Whats next

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:52 pm

If your panels are all facing north, that will be a serious mis-match for your goal with net metering later this year, if you don't use much energy during the day.
Consider re-mounting to face E and W if possible, see thread discussing that here:
http://forums.energymatters.com.au/sola ... c5064.html
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5327
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Re: Whats next

Postby pat » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:26 pm

Yes Gordon your idea of east west panels sounds like a good idea and think Ill go with that one when the time arrives as we are home through the day and extra panels faceing E W makes sense, have you ever done a costing on what it cost you to produce a kw of electricity takeing into consideration replacement of components batterys and such or have I asked the impossible question ,also forgive me if you have done so in a previous post... Is it by choice to be of grid or a necessity of where you live ..Would be interesting reading knowing what being off grid actually costs.. Pat....
pat
Solar Evangelist
Solar Evangelist
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:22 pm

Re: Whats next

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:48 pm

pat wrote: have you ever done a costing on what it cost you to produce a kw of electricity takeing into consideration replacement of components


Not specifically, as I have gradually increased the size of my system over the years, changed things about etc, and my first 2 59W panels cost well over $600 each! As a very rough guide using prices you can find today, and DIY'ing, but ignoring the cost of money and various other accounting type fudges ;) and just for off-grid vs grid-

6kW PV, ground mount for E and W facing panels $7000
5kW inverter $6000
2 60A MPPT charge controllers $2000
21kWh LiFePO4 battery, BMS etc $15000
Breakers, switches, fuses, cabling etc $2000
2.4kW 240V generator + a bit of fuel, + 40A battery charger $2000

Say $35000

Such a system should be able to easily deliver 20kWh/day on average in a reasonably sunny, not too hot location, for 15 years before anything needs replacing (other than perhaps a few capacitors). Of course it depends on how much of that you actually use, but lets say you use it all
then 20 X 365 X 15 years = ~110MWh output before the battery needs replacing

3500000 cents/ 110000kWh = ~ 32c/kWh $6.40/day, no increases

Peak rates for electricity around here are over 50c now, flat rate ~30c I think, plus there's the standing charge of about $1.50/day, both of which are sure to increase over the next 10 years. If you use the same 20kWh/day @ say 30c, + standing charge, that's $7.50/day, sure to go up a lot

7.50 X 365 * 15 = ~$41000 +

Even if you paid an electrician to do the installation, you'd still be ahead.

Grid connected solar, too many variables with changing FiTs and metering fees etc to think about right now!

Is it by choice to be of grid or a necessity of where you live


Purely by choice, since 1991.
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5327
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Next

Return to Q&A - wind and solar power basics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 5 guests

new solar power specials