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GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:59 am
by GarnZ
There is no doubt electrical solar and wind energy will be able to be stored in the future.
Now we have this problem of “Gas”!
Do we think gas is absolutely required to source more energy, in the way of gas-fired turbines or is it necessary as a piped source for industry.
I’ve read Australian industry requires gas to continue as a viable and economic resource…. Is this true?
Let’s say its true!
Then our solution may be, to deny all domestic users of this commodity and leave it purely for industry.
All domestic users do not require gas.
We must forget the famous adage “but, I’ve always cooked with gas!”. This must come to an end in this crisis.

I have not done the statistics on what volume of gas could be saved, by diverting domestic gas to industrial gas and depriving of all householders of this service, perhaps it should be looked at!
Am I leaving out something? Am I over-simplifying a mammoth problem. BTW, I’m against fracking.
RegardZ.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:46 am
by lantern
How can there be a gas shortage when there are three gas export terminals being built in Gladstone.
They are just spinning us BS.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 am
by Gordon-Loomberah
The big gas companies have overcommitted to export volumes, as there were good prices on offer, and they could extract it cheaply, and that's forced up local pricing to parity with export prices, making it one of the most expensive ways to generate electricity. Apparently some companies are making losses on the exporting at the moment, so they wont be paying income tax on it. I think the SA govt is throwing money away in spending $360,000,000 on a 250MW gas generator, that will only be used occasionally, even if they had the gas to run it.
How large a PV array + pumped hydro storage system, which could be used every day without producing pollution or destroying farmland, could you build for that cost?
However, in regards to the so-called gas crisis for domestic use, gas isn't very efficient for water heating or cooking in the house, so my advice is to disconnect and go all electric, maybe just keep the gas for the BBQ.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:31 am
by Bthree
GarnZ wrote:Then our solution may be, to deny all domestic users of this commodity and leave it purely for industry.


Don't forget Bottled gas ... Cars, BBQ, Camping, and a lot of domestic heating.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:31 am
by GarnZ
Bthree wrote:Don't forget Bottled gas ... Cars, BBQ, Camping, and a lot of domestic heating.


Thanks Bthree, I did forget those items. I am being a bit harsh
1. Cars & buses , which ain't industrial connected, will have to convert back to diesel/ petrol. or be given three years to change vehicles.
2. BBQ's allowed (however may be a bit pricey in long term) Commecial eat- houses will be allowed.
3. Camping established sites. Maybe go soft on this?
4. Domestic heating... Phased out after 3 years (industrial use only). Won't be popular!

RegardZ.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:45 pm
by davidg
Big difference between

LNG = Liquid Natural Gas this what is being exported.

LPG = Liquid Petroleum Gas by product from crude oil.

not in general use for houses etc, unless not connected to the reticulated gas system.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:54 pm
by Smurf1976
Does industry need gas?

Well it does need a high grade heat source and even the cheapest grid electricity is simply too expensive in that context. So it's either use gas or, in practice, coal with gas having some pretty major advantages in every way.

So in practice yes, industry needs gas.

Something to remember though is that 70% of all gas produced in the Eastern gas market is exported so that, not how much is being used in factories or to cook at home, is the real issue.

Eastern gas market - that's Qld, NSW, ACT, Vic, Tas and SA with all exports from that system physically taking place from Qld (which in turn is literally sucking the other states dry).

Most gas produced in WA is also exported and in the NT it's well over 90% exported. So to the extent that there's any shortage of gas in this country it's because we're shipping it overseas, not because your neighbour turned their heating on etc.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:48 am
by GarnZ
Smurf1976 wrote:Does industry need gas?

Well it does need a high grade heat source and even the cheapest grid electricity is simply too expensive in that context. So it's either use gas or, in practice, coal with gas having some pretty major advantages in every way.

So in practice yes, industry needs gas.

There is no argument that Industry needs gas!
I was merely advocating that, we should look at~ foregoing our consumption of the domestic use of gas, to help boost the supply to industry!

As previously mentioned, I'm not sure of the proportion of domestic use is to the industrial use regarding the overall supply.
RegardZ

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:25 pm
by Helipos
GarnZ wrote:There is no argument that Industry needs gas!
I was merely advocating that, we should look at~ foregoing our consumption of the domestic use of gas, to help boost the supply to industry!


Another option would have been to do what WA governments did and restrict a certain percentage volume of a gas field for the exclusive use in the domestic (state) market. But unfortunately you had short sighted idiots running the governments on the East Coast and now all the gas users are paying the price.

Re: GAS Fiasco.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:42 am
by sulphur1
Industry will only profit & gouge us more!
This is simply about maximum profit gouging that Australia has become for everything!
The Government & bureaucrats on their greedy remuneration 'schemes' have no idea and the limp reaction of the current Energy Minister and PM says it all.
WA has been criticised for reserving gas by off-shore interests that seek to profit from selling off our resources at the expense to our living standard.
We have to have 'world parity pricing' for another energy - auto fuel, so how come we have to pay up to 3x than that delivered other countries such as Korea for gas energy? Other than possibly manufacture gas field/platform infrastructure (for a price!) what have they done for us to get it so good?.....
Limiting export is one of the reasons the US can still be a big manufacturer and energy is cheap, not forgetting green can compete as well - Idaho's green electricity prices is half ours.
The US only recently allowed about 25% gas for export after the huge reserves of shale gas has become economically viable when the middle east cartels price gets to high.
Have a nice day if you can afford it!