Energy Matters Forums

[The Good Egg]

Hi
Has anyone else rang their energy retailer to ask how the payments and billing for FIT are to be paid and how the billing will work and few question regarding gst?

Fair dinkum, i think i got transferred to the front register at Bilo! - no offense intended.

Firstly i was told that the system was still being worked out as CE had no mechanism for paying/creditting customers....what? Still spluttering i was transferred to someone else who assured me that it was upto customers to contact CE and request the owed amount and that it would be paid once per year????

As a supplier with a ABN do i send an invoice to CE including GST ? - they add it to my bill
that question totally flummoxed them ... still awaiting a reply

Any comments ......

[scrapyard]

Hello Egg

Did you get any resolution with CE? Have you received any payments from them? Does the GST show up in payment made to you??

I'm interested to know as I am having 4 systems connected on my various properties...

[scrapyard]

I have just had a further conversation with an accountant at Country Energy.

CE applied for a tax office ruling on the GST implications of the GFIT back in Feb 2010 and have not yet received a response. CE are considering that the GFIT of 60c is to be considered as a "price" and therefore under the Tax act, the "price" includes GST.

When I mentioned that a GST registered entity (supplying solar power) should be able to be paid 60c Plus GST, the accountant acknowledged that if there was enough interest from customers, then a special tariff of 60c plus GST could be put into the system, and if people (solar suppliers) prove they are registered for GST to CE, they could be put on the new tariff of 66c.

Otherwise, CE has the position that the payment of 60c to anyone, GST registered or not includes GST, and so if you are registered and have to claim/remit GST then you are only being paid 54.5c per kWhr.

Add to this the fact that, according to the accountant, the 60c FIT is paid out of CE revenue, not NSW govt revenue... this also goes to show one of the bigger reasons why the GFIT scheme was shelved so quickly, as some smart bunny must have told Kristina that the value of the electricity assets sale was dropping with each new GFIT connection!

As many know, Origin are paying 66c/kW hr. I offered advice to the CE accountant that if CE paid 66c to everyone, and claimed the payment as including GST, then this has no net revenue cost to CE, as they would be paying the GST out and claiming it as an input tax cost- in effect spending govt money not their own. Agreement was given that this is of course possible and correct, but not going to happen as they feel they wouldn't be able to claim the GST paid to Non GST registered suppliers, even using the notional GST accounting systems.

So still not solution....and clear as mud.

[Sojin_Muneshi]

When I mentioned that a GST registered entity (supplying solar power) should be able to be paid 60c Plus GST, the accountant acknowledged that if there was enough interest from customers, then a special tariff of 60c plus GST could be put into the system, and if people (solar suppliers) prove they are registered for GST to CE, they could be put on the new tariff of 66c.

Yes, they might be paid GST, but they would be collecting it for the taxman
- not pocketing it themselves? so why bother?

And if its a product or service then being sold commercially by that GST registered entity (ie as their GST registered product/service), then equally the Tax man might revisit the treatment of the payment and credits as taxable income? so not neccessarily a great win to have fought for?

I understand for residential customers the GST treatment on the bill is:

you Buy $200 of Energy (a product or service that attracts GST from a GST registered supplier)
you owe the taxman $20 of GST

You generate $100 of Export (and are not registered to collect GST) so you have no GST to charge the Retailer (and give to the taxman)

BUT - you end up paying the difference of $100 to the retailer, but still with $20 of GST to go to the taxman.

Fair and equitable!

most people wanting to charge GST think they get to keep the extra 10% in their pocket - not so!

You cannot collect GST if your not registered to do so.

You cannot be registered, and keep it! your simply a tax collector via the BAS statements, you do get to offset your incoming GST against outgoing GST but you wont get that for $100 of Export a year!

regards

Sojin Muneshi

[Les]

The Plot Thickens (typed with a lisp).

So, just received latest CE Bill. Somehow they work out the GST component of a $695.41 bill to be $83.13.

Now, that is not right. They are having their cake and eating it too.

Looking a little closer at the invoice, they have not allowed GST for the FIT. Charged a rebate but NOT deducted GST from the invoice.

This should be 60c per kw ***PLUS*** GST.

Whichever way, GST should ever only ALWAYS be 1/11th the invoice amount!

How do we get this resolved? (I imagine they are collecting quite a packet, as they will most likely only remit 1/11th of what they collect.)

[Les]

After several attempts finally received a response, from the now Essential Energy people as per below.
Seems to still contain errors. Far too unclear. GST should really only ever amount to 1/11th of a taxable amount!

Dear Mr Einhorn

Thank you for your recent enquiries regarding the application of GST on your electricity account.

There are two separate transactions on your account

Firstly you are invoiced for Country Energy’s supply of electricity to you. Country Energy has charged you GST on this supply. I have provided a break down of the charges on your most recent invoice.

Residential Meter (3228 units @22.122) $714.10
Controlled Load (443 units @8.434) $ 37.36
Service Availability Residential $ 76.87
Service Availability CL $ 6.51
Avoided TUOS $ 3.56 Credit

Sub Total $831.28
GST $ 83.13 (this is the GST payable by you for supply used in your home)
Total $914.41

The second transaction included in your invoice is for your supply to Country Energy of electricity you have generated in the period. For this supply,we have credited your account the amounts we are obliged to under the NSW Solar Bonus Scheme.

Under the NSW Solar Rebate Scheme, Country Energy is required to pay you 60 cents per kilowatt hour for your electricity supplied to the grid. This rate is deemed to include GST (if any). Your treatment of GST on your supply of the electricity to Country Energy is dependant on your tax status. It is suggested that you seek independent taxation advice.

Solar Credit (365 units @ 60 cents) $219.00 Credit

The total of your most recent account was $695.41 (Electricity charges $914.41 minus Solar Credits $219.00)

I understand that the format of the bill may be confusing, but the billing system was designed prior to the implementation of the Solar Bonus scheme. I can assure that the solar bonus scheme will be taken into consideration in any future enhancements to our billing system.


Thanks and Regards (sic)

[Helen]

I have just had my first electricity bill since installing solar panels. I noticed that I was charged GST on the total energy consumed including the amount generated by my panels. I sent a query to the company to clarify whether this was in accordance with tax law or was simply their policy. They sent an interim reply saying they'd get back to me within 15 days. That was about a month ago. This is obviously an unclear area and it's good to find your forum. Thanks.