Abbott hates wind.

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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby melmik » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:40 pm

I've never understood why the fuel tax credits scheme has gone for so long, why it is variable, and why it is so generous. Especially in our current economic state.

I pay full fuel excise, mining pays zero. Why?

Other business inputs such as labour costs are taxed (income, fbt and payroll taxes) and as far as I know there is no tax credit for the other large business input, land. Even other excise goods such as beer are not credited.....how un-Australian.

What is the economic benefit for a pretty signifcant cost to Aus from providing this credit (to any industry).

Maybe time to review what this credit was initially for and ask if it is still relevant.
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby jimbo » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:31 pm

From an earlier post

One of the most significant expansions of fuel excise occurred in 1957 when an excise on diesel was introduced to ensure that operators of diesel vehicles contributed to the maintenance of roads. It was at this time that the first exemption for excise was introduced, as diesel excise was only applied for on-road uses of diesel. This was because a formal policy of hypothecating excise revenue for road construction was still in place. …

In 1957, an exemption certificate scheme was set up to provide an exemption of excise for all off-road users of diesel fuel. This continued after the 1959 end to formal hypothecation of petrol and diesel excises to road funding.

In 1982, the Government abolished the exemption certificate scheme due to alleged abuse of the system, whereby on-road users were obtaining diesel that had been purchased duty free via the exemption certificate system.

The Diesel Fuel Rebate Scheme (DFRS) was introduced to replace this scheme. This effectively did two things:

• all users of diesel fuel were required to purchase duty paid fuel, with eligible users then being able to claim a rebate equivalent to the excise for certain off-road usage; and

• the rebate was limited to primary producers, miners, users of diesel for heating, lighting, hot water, air-conditioning and cooking for domestic purposes and for diesel fuel used at hospitals, nursing, and old-aged persons homes. It further restricted eligibility within these categories to only certain activities, for example, mining did not include quarrying.



Miners use the fuel on private roads so why should they pay a road tax?

I was recently working on a pipeline in WA that was being built to supply a mine with natural gas to fire their own power station as they were currently burning 250,000-300,000 Litres of diesel a day!
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby melmik » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:51 pm

I didnt realise it went that far back.
It still amazes me that any govt (lib or labor) hasnt dumped or bypassed it. Very unlike govt to leave something alone for so long and to pass up a chance (ANY chance) to collect more revenue.
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby jimbo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:55 am

How can Australia be remotely competitive if we were to slam $0.38+GST on diesel fuel that is not used for transport on public roads? I don't think people have any idea what gets used on even a small site. We use compressors at work that will burn 800L per shift. That is one compressor using 1600L/day. There are times when 4 are needed at once. On top of that you have pumps and generators etc that use another 1500L a day. We don't all work in offices that just need electricity to power laptops. Heavy industry uses energy.

Lucky air travel only gets stung with $0.05 or $0.09c/L. When you jump in a 747 for a long trip it will have been loaded with 215,000L, which is over 6 semi trailer fuel tankers.
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby australsolarier » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:36 pm

i am starting to feel really sorry for coal mines. my heart goes out to them.
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby australsolarier » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:47 pm

maybe i am just stupid or bloody minded. even if there would be an infinite source of carbon fuels and they would not pollute, i still prefer renewable energy. and i still think renewable energy is much better. and i still think they are the future. and i still think we should put our skills and intelligence in developing them. the only reason somebody would support carbon fuels is when they have a vested interest. that is the reason the "liberals" and conservatives the world over support carbon fuels. it is simply making money no matter what. like i said it is possible that there is something wrong with the way i am thinking about it.
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby melmik » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:19 pm

Countries such as Australia that base a significant portion (up to 10% in some cases) their revenue on fuel excise (transport/motor vehicle) must be concerned about the growth of electric or even more fuel efficient vehicles. Probably looking for other revenue sources already, hence my comments re surprise that the excise rebate hadnt been adjusted or pilfered. Imagine their bureaucratic minds considering 5cents a litre admin charge for managing the scheme, or.....a stamp duty.

Regarding the fuel excise rebate and subsidies - it is probably easiest to focus on the word 'rebate' and compare it with a tax refund. Basically giving back the excise component that was paid at the pump. As such it isnt a direct subsidy to the industries that claim it. But its relevance to its original concept of road funding to those of us that do pay has been eroded as it has become a large lump into general revenue, with no relation between the income and the federal road spending output.
And yes I realise that as part of consolidated revenue it is used to fund other stuff we use. Just saying the linkage between what we pay to use roads and what we get back has been broken.
I suppose that like some other nations we could use excise rebates as a carrot/stick to encourage more efficient industry fuel use or as a pollution reduction measure.

As for cutting competitiveness of Australian companies - when has that concept ever stopped our 2 major parties. Have a look at what allowing imported fruit has done for our farmers.
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby sandystone » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:45 pm

A current reference to the enormous subsidies which are still going to the coal industry.
http://theausinstitute.nationbuilder.com/back_qld

It would be great to see that money supporting the continued development of the clean energy industry....
Last edited by Gordon-Loomberah on Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: moved to correct topic
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby melmik » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:06 pm

Hopefully the Qld govt cutting back on subsidies will add to the pressure against the Adani Carmichael mine proposal.

Although Adani are doing a brilliant job of shooting themselves in the foot. They would probably expect Qld to pay for and build the rail links the Abbott Pt terminal.

http://m.smh.com.au/business/comment-an ... mud1h.html

Even Alan Jones has come out against the govt over the Gunnedah Shenhua mine, which appears to have some flaws in the environmental approval and monitoring processes. Why do we most often end up with dodgy approvals and processes with the massive time and money spent on them?
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Re: Abbott hates wind.

Postby Smurf1976 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:26 pm

So long as we don't tax coal or gas, it seems pretty reasonable to me that oil fuels (diesel etc) being used for stationary energy supply (electricity, process heat etc) should also not be taxed.

What would be the rationale for a tax on diesel equivalent to about $150 per tonne of CO2 emitted whilst there's no comparable tax on coal and gas?

So long as the fuel is being used for something other than running vehicles on public roads, not taxing it seems fair to me at least for the present time.
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