SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

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SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby helios » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:58 pm

Hi. Looking at 10kw grid connect solar.Told that SMA transformerless 10kw inverter not available til April or May - would have provided 9.62kw using 52 x 185w Risen PVs. Alternative offer of 9.9kw using 54 x 185w Risen PVs but using 3 x 3.3 kw Aerosharp inverters. Don't know much about Aerosharp but specs seem OK to my untrained eye & they offer 10 year guarantee. I am concerned about using 3 inverters with extra heat/energy loss. Any other disadvantages :?:
Possible advantages I see are:-
1 If one breaks down I've still 6.6kw left
2. We have tree shade til 8am summer and 10 am midwinter so we may benefit as the shade moves off the 1st string then 2nd string rather than wait for whole roof to clear.
3. Allows slightly larger system (9.9kw vs 9.6 kw )
As we have $8000 rebate available only until end of June we don't want to be caught out by further shipment delays for SMA 10kw TL plus evey week we delay could lose $150-200 in solar bonuses.
Would appreciate any informed comments
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby rg767 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:56 pm

Aerosharps are OK. They aren't as good as the 10000TL though. You are getting another 3-4% from the SMA. Normally you could weigh up the financial losses from four months as opposed to efficiency losses for 25 years and there is your answer.

But if you are suffering that sort of shade on a 10kW system:

* maybe a smaller system better positioned might worth considering? A larger one sounds like an opportunity for more shading, so I am not sure why you would want to go bigger.

* multiple high efficiency inverters with dual MPPTs might be better than a single central inverter that is struggling with heavily shaded strings. I don't think a small central inverter like this (10000TL) is entirely appropriate.
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby helios » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:56 pm

Hi rg767. Thanks for your informative reply.
Regarding the tree shading, as it is total at 8am midwinter, diagonal 50% at 9 and clear at 10 the difference between small system well positioned system and 10kw is going to be 1-1.5 hrs.The roof faces NNW so we wouldn't see sun much before that.
I am looking at 10kw system because:-
-We have cathedral ceilings so extra insulation would be expensive and reduce airflow - covering roof with PVs would be more effective
-I think it makes sense to produce as much electricity as possible locally and reduce coal use
-NSW govt paying 60c/kw for systems up to 10kw so system should pay for itself in 5 - 6 years

Isolating strings and using dual MPPTs does seem the way to go although I note your comments in "GRID INVERTERS" to avoid using 2 inverters instead of one. Regarding your comments about using multiple inverters with dual MPPTs, I'm a bit new to this so wonder if you could give me some guidance as to how many and which ones you may have in mind -Ive made enquiries about the 5kw Auroras which have dual MPPTs and note their 10kw will handle 3 strings.
Thanks, Helios
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby rg767 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:26 pm

You surprised me with the 10kW Aurora inverter - I actually didn't know they were becoming available.

I honestly cant imagine how using PV as a shading device would be more cost effective than using insulation, but I will leave that one to you.

To clarify (hopefully),

Yes, a bigger system will generate more electricity, but only if it is not shaded. It could be that a shaded 10kW system will produce as much electricity as an unshaded 8kW system, with the additional benefit of the reduction in capital costs. Of course the shade might not be avoidable in either case, but it pays to consider which options actually makes sense. Sometimes none of them do, and in those cases, a high capital cost is less appropriate. You have mentioned a payback period, but that assumes full production (I assume).

Whatever system size you go for, keeping the efficiency high is important. If your roof is very shaded, I suspect a 10000TL will struggle for all of the shaded hours. I only ever use a central inverter when I know I am going to get 0% sunlight hours shading.

If I was spending the money I would make sure I had the shading nailed down, especially when choosing the inverter.

On the inverters, my comment of previous about not using multiples was more directly targeted at SMA 1100s for reasons of economic and system efficiency, but also because they might be more likely installed on a common phase. I would always be very cautious about any multiple inverters on the same phase however, although I would recommend multiples on multi-phase installations where something like shading or multiple facades makes them more appropriate.

On a side note: I am aware that the Auroras have been tested to work in multiples on same phase [edit: and there are probably others that would work], and I think you can get them to communicate with each other via RS485 connections, so I would be less inclined to worry that they would drop out through grid impedance, or even worse hold each other up when the grid blacks out.

With an Aurora 5kW you do get the dual MPPT, and so a chance to split the roof in two if necessary. The 10kW unit has dual MPPTs also. It is three phase, so you will need a three phase supply.

With the dual MPPTs there may be a chance that you can isolate the shading but I guess it comes down to the situation. I don't really have anything in mind, its just that shading a string or two of a central inverter with a single MPPT bothers me.
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby helios » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:43 pm

I've been monitoring the shade patterns from 2 neighbours trees this a.m. and the roof is 60% clear of shading whilst it is present (up to 9am) but the shade does migrate around. At any one time 75% of PVs could be located clear of shade.This suggests to me that the 3 Aerosharps 3kw with their dual MPPTs would be a sensible alternative to the SMA 10000 TL despite the difference in efficiencies (98% vs94.5%) as I presume they will be able to more or less isolate 6 strings.

Good learning exercise all of this!
Anyone know of a silent chainsaw that can trim neighbour's trees?
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:47 pm

Given your potential loss of income from the shading of panels, it might be worthwhile for you to pay to have the trimming done.

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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby solar.ranger » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:24 pm

There is a reason that you have to wait for SMA inverters,its very simple! "They are the best" This is evident by the world wide demand outstriping supply.If you are serious about installing a solar system surely you could wait a couple of months.If you were buying a car would you settle for a Hyundi or wait 2 months for a BMW?
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby helios » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:43 pm

I was told by the ASP that SMAs not available until August which would mean missing out on July deadlines for Government grant and an EA deadline.
Regarding the cars, I think BMWs are excessively overpriced and don't look very good and interior design is cheap. At the end of the day, I'm sure the Hyundai would get me from A to B and apparently the i30 is the best in its class and looks good!If it was compulsory to buy a luxury car I would go for a Jag.
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:56 pm

helios wrote:If it was compulsory to buy a luxury car I would go for a Jag.


Except you would need to buy 2 of them, one to drive, and one to get spare parts from when car 1 breaks down :lol:
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Re: SMA 10kw inverters unavailable-? 3x3.3 Aerosharp alternative

Postby The Good Egg » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:08 am

Petrol burners aside....
wondering on the Aurora inverters v's SMA 9000TL, which has something called "optitrac" ?

can anyone explain what this means
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