Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

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Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:56 am

Hi,

Does anybody have an experience/knowledge of these batteries?

http://www.ozimall.com.au/Pro-Power-12V-100ah-Lithium-Ion-LiFePo4-Deep-Cycle-Battery-Solar-4WD-Caravan

I need to replace my current 260ah AGM 48v battery bank, as one battery has failed.

Thanks,

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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:52 am

Can't say I have heard of them, but this heading on their website: "Lithium Ion PO4 Batteries" shows confusion between Iron and ion. I see they also have Aquion batteries listed.

As for all reasonably sized off-grid installations, I think you would be better off getting individual cells rather than 12V batteries - less expense to buy, and also less expensive to replace a bad cell, which can't be done with the pre-assembled battery.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:18 am

Hi,

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:As for all reasonably sized off-grid installations, I think you would be better off getting individual cells rather than 12V batteries - less expense to buy, and also less expensive to replace a bad cell, which can't be done with the pre-assembled battery.


I thought the price was reasonable, I was planing on buying 8 x 50ah, I know I posted a link to 100ah, so as you said I could replace only one in the event of a failure. Not as cheap as one cell though.

The cost of 8 x 50ah would be about $4700.

Where would I buy at the best price? What would that be?

I don't know whether I will need any form battery monitor system with these, as the appear to high & low cutouts built in.

I am planning on buy an addition to my MN Classic to monitor the ahs in/out to control charging.

I'm also looking at NiFe batteries, they are individual cells, these appear to be about the same price.

Either way, they will last a lot longer than the AGMs, which have paid for themselves. We've had no electricity bills since 2012, plus we've had a good rebate each year. I was hoping for a bit more life, but I might be able to sell the remaining 3.

Thanks,

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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:09 am

I haven't checked prices or suppliers lately, but an internet search should bring up a few, including some EV suppliers.

Generally 12V Lithium batteries are not really suited to running in series, as you can't access individual cells for balancing. Each 12V battery will have a set of 4 matched cells in it, and it is considered that they wont need balancing under normal use. Add another 12V battery in series with cells of slightly different capacity cells, and I think you will eventually have balancing problems.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby APR » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:31 pm

You can buy 16 X 3.2v 200 Ah capacity LiFePO4 cells with balancers, the cells clamped, and in a frame mounting system with a protective top cover for $6,000. Add something like a Victron BMV-702 BMS which gives SOC and provides a high and low voltage cutout as well as a battery mid point voltage out of balance cutout when actuating an appropriate relay between the battery and inverter.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Hi,

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:I haven't checked prices or suppliers lately, but an internet search should bring up a few, including some EV suppliers.


I thought it best to ask here first. I'll do some more searching, but haven't found any that would work out the same or cheaper.

Generally 12V Lithium batteries are not really suited to running in series, as you can't access individual cells for balancing. Each 12V battery will have a set of 4 matched cells in it, and it is considered that they wont need balancing under normal use. Add another 12V battery in series with cells of slightly different capacity cells, and I think you will eventually have balancing problems.


I guess that's also one disadvantage of SLA, opposed to individual LA cells. With them though you couldn't replace one old cell with a new one I thought, same as you can't replace an old, with a new in a pack of SLAs.

According to details the batteries have:

Internal cell balancing

and
Can be used in series or parallel


Is this what you meant?

APR wrote:You can buy 16 X 3.2v 200 Ah capacity LiFePO4 cells with balancers, the cells clamped, and in a frame mounting system with a protective top cover for $6,000. Add something like a Victron BMV-702 BMS which gives SOC and provides a high and low voltage cutout as well as a battery mid point voltage out of balance cutout when actuating an appropriate relay between the battery and inverter.


I only want 100ah, but where did you find the cell price?

Thanks,

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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:09 pm

If the 12V batteries have internal cell balancers, then they should be ok connected in series. Some on the market do not have balancing, instead relying on "matched" cells, although how well that works in practice is hard to say.
You can replace a cell in a Lead-acid battery if it isn't too old, and you can in a Lithium battery too- I'll be doing that myself soon, with my bit over 3.5year old battery.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby APR » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:25 pm

I only want 100ah, but where did you find the cell price?
Thanks,
dRdoS7


That price is from an off grid installer in my area. He brings the cells into OZ, and has been doing solar for 20 years. He can supply 100Ah cells but has a 10 to 12 week lead time to bring them in. He carries stock of 200Ah and 400Ah cells. I am using 51.2 volt of 400Ah cells that he supplied.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Iron LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:28 pm

Hi,

Some searching has found these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GBS-LIFEPO4-Battery-12-V100AH-for-electric-bicycle-tool-mower-etc-with-connector/2006940816.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.2.J98QT4&scm=1007.13338.35813.0&pvid=ac7e9cc6-5a72-4b3d-b455-27b6fcc4873c&tpp=0

Cost is AU $3,492.27 delivered to my door, in 6 days!

I would still need to buy a BMS & relays.

I have another question: my inverter has "Smart Pulse Charging", I have the charge setting at a low value so it won't actually do much once the sun goes down, and the Classic switches the AC mains back on. I read (somewhere) this was not good. Will this really have a bad effect on LiFePO4 batteries?

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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby APR » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:50 am

dRdoS7 wrote:Cost is AU $3,492.27 delivered to my door, in 6 days!

I would still need to buy a BMS & relays.


You may be hit with import duties and taxes on top of that price.

Check out the following.... http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatur ... =53&CL3=NA where you will find 100Ah Winstons at AU$1.74/Ah. Some rough figures....

16 X 100Ah cells @ $174 each = $2,784 including GST
16 x cell interconnection plates $64
16 cell balancers, $240
Plus freight ??

What I would then be adding to it...
1 x Victron BMV-702 $280 (center voltage out of balance monitoring)
Manual isolator complete with HRC fusing of both cables.
Plus relays, cabling, etc.
2 x Goodwe GW5048D-ES Hybrid inverters, 13kW panels, 20kWh LiFePO4
Mk2 PV Router feeding excess solar generation to a 3.6kW 250 ltr HWS
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