Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:04 am

Hi,

APR wrote:Check out the following.... http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatur ... =53&CL3=NA where you will find 100Ah Winstons at AU$1.74/Ah. Some rough figures....

16 X 100Ah cells @ $174 each = $2,784 including GST
16 x cell interconnection plates $64
16 cell balancers, $240
Plus freight ??

What I would then be adding to it...
1 x Victron BMV-702 $280 (center voltage out of balance monitoring)
Manual isolator complete with HRC fusing of both cables.
Plus relays, cabling, etc.


I've emailed them for a price.

They don't have the Victron, balancers, or relays listed, but I've asked in case they do sell them.

I also need strapping, could make it myself, but asked for a price.

Thanks,

dRdoS7
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby APR » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:44 pm

dRdoS7 wrote:They don't have the Victron, balancers, or relays listed, but I've asked in case they do sell them.

I also need strapping, could make it myself, but asked for a price.

Thanks,

dRdoS7


If they cannot supply the balancers and other bits, then Rod at EV Power should have them. Just make sure you get the correct units for your cells.
http://ev-power.com.au/

A manual battery isolator that will take HRC fuses...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391421617065

I use the following Gigavac Relay as the auto battery isolator....
http://ev-power.com.au/webstore/dc-cont ... x23ba.html

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/162017462012

Another unit that is good quality, suitable, and cheaper...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301646315856

What I have done to use the 12v coil of these units on a 48v (51.2v actually) battery pack is use a 48v to 12v converter to power the Gigavac relay coil.... a converter like this one...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181200965711

The Victron is powered at the 48v battery voltage, and outputs low amperage 48v to power a relay. I use a relay such as this one...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391192461906

.. off the Victron to switch 12v from the 48v/12v down converter to actuate the Gigavac relay. While the coils are actuated in normal operation, the current to supply the coils is minimal.

You mention straps for the cells, however, I have plates and booker rod holding my cells together in 2 groups of 8 cells...
http://i.imgur.com/pXYOQuu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YGjUIH1.jpg

Here is an image of the complete installation less the Victron gauge which is in a box on the wall beside the inverter ....
http://i.imgur.com/tdoIyZw.jpg

The Victron BMV-702 can be found on eBay, or marine suppliers may have them.
2 x Goodwe GW5048D-ES Hybrid inverters, 13kW panels, 20kWh LiFePO4
Mk2 PV Router feeding excess solar generation to a 3.6kW 250 ltr HWS
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:34 pm

Hi,




[Moderator - removed quoting of entire previous posting, it's just up there ^^^ if you need to read it again]




Basicly Natural don't have any cells ATM!

Thanks for the links, ev-power have some 180ah cells, they seem a good price too. Only able to 3 to the shopping cart though!

I've messaged them with a shopping list.

Still waiting for prices on NiFe, these have less control requirements, but are larger for the same capacity. But then they have a projected longer life, even with deeper %DOD. We used them at work for standby power, and I know they were > 30 years old. But they were in standby, maybe discharged once or twice a year, not cycled daily.

Horns of a dilemma.

I have managed to convince the Finance Dept, that more batteries means less power used, which means more rebate$. Not strictly accurate, but close enough. So, payback will be quicker.

dRdoS7
Last edited by Gordon-Loomberah on Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed excessive quoting
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:02 pm

Hi,

Moderator wrote:[Moderator - removed quoting of entire previous posting, it's just up there ^^^ if you need to read it again]


Yes, it usually annoys me too, but I was in a hurry.

dRdoS7 wrote:Still waiting for prices on NiFe, these have less control requirements, but are larger for the same capacity. But then they have a projected longer life, even with deeper %DOD. We used them at work for standby power, and I know they were > 30 years old. But they were in standby, maybe discharged once or twice a year, not cycled daily.


I am wrong about us using NiFe at work, they were NiCd.

I got a price for NiFe: $8000 for 48v, 200ah. Works out the same as LiFePO4. So I've ordered them. 4 / 5 weeks to wait.

Now to make a load of racking for them. Plenty of room in the garage.

dRdoS7.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:09 pm

You'll lose a bit of energy due to their lower efficiency, so may need some more panels if working near the limit now, and might need to keep an eye on their voltage range if cycling them over their full capacity, the range is beyond some inverters' operating voltage window.
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:08 am

HI,

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:You'll lose a bit of energy due to their lower efficiency, so may need some more panels if working near the limit now, and might need to keep an eye on their voltage range if cycling them over their full capacity, the range is beyond some inverters' operating voltage window.


Yes, 80% apparently, but I have excess charging capacity, assuming there's sun. There's no problem if they don't get fully charged each time.

My inverter would automatically cut the batteries off if they got below 42V, so no problem there. But my Classic would restore AC (if it's not a blackout) well before that. I'll probably set the Classic to 46V, maybe even 44-45V (currently 49.7V).

My inverter would crapout, after making lots of beeping noises, if it went to 66V or even 70V! I plan to put the last cell of each set of 10 in parallel, to keep the voltage down. I may need to revise the lower setting on the Classic too then.

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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby John1970 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:44 am

I was also thinking of going the 12v LiFeP04 x 4 route as they supposedly have a built in BMS, I have some Battery balancers that I use on my AGM Batteries which could be fitted to the four 12v LiFeP04's that would be in series.
My concern was also if one cell failed in a Battery I would have to replace the whole Battery if out of warranty; I think they had a 3 year warranty? But I would expect they would last a lot longer hopefully.
There seems to be a few manufacturers making and selling this type of LiFeP04 Battery now and I've seen one mob bolting 4x 3.2v cells together with a BMS and selling them as a 12v Battery, this would be easier to replace one cell in theory?
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:56 pm

Hi,




They sound like a better proposition, as you could replace only one cell of a battery.

I could buy 4 sets, of 4 x 12v 51ah, same type as in my first post, for $8000, I would have to replace only one complete battery out of 16, if needed. I would have gone that way, but the extras like LV & HV monitoring & cutouts, plus possibly shorter lifespan, decided me against them.

Time will tell. Really, I made a mistake not buying LiFePO4 in the first place. It would have cost more initially, but then I wouldn't be in the current situation. I was expecting 5 -7 years, and remaining ones may do that. Still, I should be able to sell the remaining 3 x 260ah AGMs. If I can't, I'll find a use for them as a 12v bank, maybe with another inverter, as a small 1000w backup system.

I'm hoping the NiFes outlast me, preferably without my dying in the next 35 years!

dRdoS7
Last edited by Gordon-Loomberah on Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed excessive quoting
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby John1970 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:34 pm

Here's some I was looking at on fleabay, and a little looking on Google brings up their own or other selling websites: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281260837468 ... EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/141889970732 ... EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331902303340 ... EBIDX%3AIT
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Re: Pro Power 12V 100ah Lithium Ion LiFePo4

Postby dRdoS7 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:47 pm

Hi,

[Moderator, it's just a few cm up there ^^^^^^^^^^, no need to repeat it all!]

OK, sorry, again! 3rd time lucky?

The last link has the second largest spade terminals I've ever seen!

Dealing direct would probably result in lower prices, Pro-power 4 x 12v 51ah are $2399 on ebay, but a quick email got the price I quoted in my previous post. A good saving.

dRdoS7
Last edited by Gordon-Loomberah on Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed unnecessary quoting
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