Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby evadsiv » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:30 pm

At $17,500 and the Warranty is until 30,000KWh (or 10 years which ever comes first) then that is 58 1/3 Cents per KWh Under Warranty.
If it is at the high end quoted $19,500 then that is 65 Cents per KWh Under Warranty.

So the system would need to last way beyond Warranty with no maintenance cost for the cost per KWh to get down to a reasonable level.

So you would be looking at possible benefits other than cost savings at least until the cost of power goes beyond these prices.

The 80% Efficiency DC - DC is other item that would need to be looked at.
@Gordon -- Is it just saying you need to supply 10/0.8 = 12.5 KWh to get the 10KWh out of it?

Taken from here
http://redflow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Redflow-ZBM2-Datasheet.pdf
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:54 pm

Yes, you need to put in 125% of the energy that you will get out of it, at best and it may well be more than that, as I noticed somewhere it said 80% was the max efficiency, which may mean it applies only within a certain range of SOC, so efficiency may well be less over the full 0 to 100% SOC range.
You'll need 25%+ more panels, mounting etc, which effectively increases the cost over LiFePO4 even more.
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby MasterCATZ » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:26 pm

Facepalm

so you mean if I asked them 1 month later I could have gotten them

they wouldn't give me any price or eta so I built an VRLA instead
I was holding out for them for ages as well
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby davidg » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:26 pm

MasterCATZ wrote:they wouldn't give me any price or eta so I built an VRLA instead
I was holding out for them for ages as well

I hope you used 2 volt cells. If you keep them cool, (ideally not over 25C) treat them correctly they will last very well indeed and likely finish-up with a lower cost per kWh anyway with a higher % charge to discharge ratio.

Not canning them but I think they need more improvements including a considerable price reduction to make them more cost effective, maybe a combination between them and PB might work out who knows ATM (N.B. they require periodic 100% DOD maintenance cycle).
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby MasterCATZ » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:32 pm

yep 48 2v cells

finally got them all hooked up today
need to readjust the charger I think it's trying to push their voltage higher than the 2.23V float

emerson 500ah
the 1000's too darn heavy

only to be used as backup power to run air/water pumps for aquaponic setup
the built in charger can only do 250watts but the inverter can do 2400 watts which is plenty for project

in all honesty a little backup generator would have been a hell of alot cheaper but I was going to use them to offset power useage by charging them at night ( not possible with only 250 watt charge )
Last edited by MasterCATZ on Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby davidg » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:34 pm

MasterCATZ wrote:yep 48 2v cells

need to readjust the charger I think it's trying to push their voltage higher than the 2.23V float


What brand and capacity?
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby Tracker » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:24 pm

..
The 80% efficiency does not phase me, but the maintenance is a pest.. every four days..
That would necessitate two units, and at the suggested prices, I now can't see it happening.
I thought that I.had seen a prospective price of under 10g a unit..
..
I do have shares in the mob.. :lol:
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The latest release on the ZCell July 2017

Postby Tracker » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:54 pm

(reposted from the thread on the latest in after FIT - a duplication but keeps this thread UTD) ;)

Now for a brief overview about some of the specifications of the Zcell battery.

Although it has a small footprint is fully modular and scalable up to multiple MW capacities.

Our batteries have the following unique features:

Nominal capacity of 10kWh with up to 5kW under 48V in a compact format, (1000mm long, 500 mm wide and 1150 mm high),
100% Depth of Discharge every day of its life (NO reserved capacity required).
Continues to deliver its entire rated energy output as it ages (unlike a conventional battery),
i.e. it doesn’t lose total storage capacity as it ages, with NO risk of irreversible over-discharge, eliminating the need for oversizing the battery and therefore extra costings,
It comes with a 30MWh Warranty, with expected energy throughput of 40MWh,
Unlimited calendar lifetime and high cycle life (4000 full cycles) makes the ZBM the most economical cycling storage in many use cases,
Has a great recycling story:
At end of life, the battery is also 100% recyclable (electrolyte, can be cleaned and put in a new battery and almost all of the rest of the battery - including the electrodes, is made of recyclable HDPE plastic, with NO Rare Earth materials used).
Unlimited storage with no self-discharge ensures asset value is unaffected even in case of prolonged idleness of the energy system,
High ambient temperature range (without active cooling - just ambient air cooling).
Nominal operation at Internal temperature of up to 50°C allows operation without active ACU cooling, even in outdoor operation in deserts,
No risk of thermal runaway of the technology allows a massive reduction of the safety requirements,
Doesn’t have a fire risk (Bromide electrolyte is a Fire Retardant) and does not need a fire suppression system and thermal management systems,
An optimised bill of material, mainly based on plastic components (up to the electrode plates) ensures strong volume cost reduction potential.


Now we only need the PRICE and the issue of the periodic maintenance cycle.. :cry:

http://www.impress.com.au/newsroom/redf ... ralia.html

At end of life, the battery is also 100% recyclable


And I am still curious as to what is End-Of-Life
Only curious because I assumed that it was near 100% rejuvenatable.. ie.. could be serviced at minimal cost to return to a NEW state.. :idea:
..
.
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:07 pm

Scroll up the page and you'll see the price ;)
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Re: Zinc Bromide Batteries - RedFlow

Postby tom rickard » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:35 pm

I was hoping the ZCell would be a bit more cost effective, but at $16500 (bare unit), it looks like i'll just install a few more LiFePO4's to increase the capacity of my system.
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