DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

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DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby franks » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:07 pm

If you want to see your meter spin backwards :)
Get some CEEG 170w PVs and these Inverters.
ideal for the feelgood Solar Guerrilla, Ideal DIY home installation, just dont tell anyone ;)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1200W-300w-4pcs- ... 2ea9092f7f

Disclaimer. I Dont really recomend you follow my advice :)
3.04kW Grid Tie system 16 of 190W PVs, Samil 3.3kW
3.8kW PV Stand Alone Off Grid.. 5-8kWHr Per day
24 of 190W PVs
Midnite Classic 150 & Lite MPPT
8 of 6V 600 AH flooded cells (24 volt 1200 AH)
Outback VFX3024E Inverter Charger
franks
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Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby Tracker » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:11 am

Whilst it is tempting to think on these lines, the DANGER is there of things going wrong.

Firstly, they WILL be unapproved.
Secondly -- Without proper protection , they would pose an electrical safety risk.

I would hate to be the one caught up in a Coroner's Court and being made an example of.. OR looking at a burning home and wondering if the Insurance Company finds the "Funny Equipment".

The other side to it is that LEGAL GC-Inverters are approaching $1/W anyway, and if one is happy to compromise questionable quality for cost, then cheap/approved ones will likely get even cheaper !
The other thing is that these things are relatively inefficient, cause they run from a nominal 12V panel.

Paying $200 for a 200W GCI of dubious quality and life expectancy, is one thing..
Buying 5 of them to use with a 1Kw PV array would be financially silly, when approved inverters can be picked up for the same $/W value.
And remember that they are ONLY usable with Grid-Connect.. If one thought that they would be great for camping, then it won't work for you..
You need 240Vac to synchronise to.
You would need a normal Inverter for camping etc. (preferably Pure-Sine-wave).
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Last edited by Tracker on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby franks » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:35 am

I totally agree with you, about the safety aspect, from my comment I did not really expect to be taken serious :)
Just noticed they statring to be sold on ebay single inverter going for $200 posted in OZ.
If the inveter of that size could be approved to be plug into the power point, a plug and play DIY installation with your own PV mounted, PV voltage string kept below ELV limits .
Just think of a 200watt Grid Tie PV sysyem for under $1000.
Imangine the take up if everone could do that, all the phantom power comsumption at home be offset with PV energy.
Phantom power of all electrical devices is typical around 1kwh in a OZ home acording to some reports.
3.04kW Grid Tie system 16 of 190W PVs, Samil 3.3kW
3.8kW PV Stand Alone Off Grid.. 5-8kWHr Per day
24 of 190W PVs
Midnite Classic 150 & Lite MPPT
8 of 6V 600 AH flooded cells (24 volt 1200 AH)
Outback VFX3024E Inverter Charger
franks
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Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Melbourne and Ballarat VIC

Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby Tracker » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:22 am

Phantom power of all electrical devices is typical around 1kwh in a OZ home according to some reports.

What's Phantom Power?

One of the problems when we jokingly make comments here on a technical Forum, is that some newbies will take the hint.

You mentioned the CEEG 170w PVs
Most of these are typically 24 or 36V nominal, and the GCI (GridConnectInverter) that you cited from EBAY, are 12V , Oops -- that hot smell is there again !
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
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Posts: 4843
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby franks » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:49 am

Phantom Power is a term to discribe the stand by power of electrical appliances ( VCR ,Microwave clock , plug packs plugged in ect), I guess the Term does sound silly "Phantom Power"
There was a comment about a Microwave oven with a Backlit clock plugged in a power point 24/7
assuming the Microwave might be used for a dozen hours a year total run time cooking
The phantom power used over the year is greater than the power used running the microwave over the same time.
All i suggested phantom power does add up in a typical house, figures 10-15% of total power used in a house is phantom, have been reported.
3.04kW Grid Tie system 16 of 190W PVs, Samil 3.3kW
3.8kW PV Stand Alone Off Grid.. 5-8kWHr Per day
24 of 190W PVs
Midnite Classic 150 & Lite MPPT
8 of 6V 600 AH flooded cells (24 volt 1200 AH)
Outback VFX3024E Inverter Charger
franks
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Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Melbourne and Ballarat VIC

Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby Tracker » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:19 am

franks wrote:All i suggested phantom power does add up in a typical house, figures 10-15% of total power used in a house is phantom, have been reported.


Full agree - Just never heard the term.. More like what one would get from a clandestine PV+EBAY-GCI...

Must measure the standby power of the uWave
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 4843
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby munter » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:45 pm

For what its worth, I believe that a party within Australia is progressing the approval of small SWEA grid connect inverters so it is possible that they will become available and legal reasonably soon. Guerilla solar type microinverters are quite exciting because they have the potential reduce installation costs for everyone in the future.
http://renovations08.blogspot.com/ - my energy efficiency blog
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Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby franks » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:30 am

Got a pic from unamed Solar Guerrilla
71w from 80w PV aprox 25'c at midday
300w grid inverter 80w pv.jpg
3.04kW Grid Tie system 16 of 190W PVs, Samil 3.3kW
3.8kW PV Stand Alone Off Grid.. 5-8kWHr Per day
24 of 190W PVs
Midnite Classic 150 & Lite MPPT
8 of 6V 600 AH flooded cells (24 volt 1200 AH)
Outback VFX3024E Inverter Charger
franks
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Melbourne and Ballarat VIC

Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby munter » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:41 am

ah - so that's what happens on the meter when power is flowing the other way!

Out of curiosity - have you measured the standby power consumption of the inverter when there is no solar power being produced? I read somewhere that some inverters can use around 20 Watts which could take a big bite out of the net production.
http://renovations08.blogspot.com/ - my energy efficiency blog
munter
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Re: DIY Grid Tie Inverter Installation(Solar Guerrilla)

Postby franks » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:48 am

I have to get back to the poster, from what I understand it go into sleep mode with no PV input, comusme under 1watt hour from the mains.
Also it does auto switch off output with no mains voltage on output (Anti Islanding)
3.04kW Grid Tie system 16 of 190W PVs, Samil 3.3kW
3.8kW PV Stand Alone Off Grid.. 5-8kWHr Per day
24 of 190W PVs
Midnite Classic 150 & Lite MPPT
8 of 6V 600 AH flooded cells (24 volt 1200 AH)
Outback VFX3024E Inverter Charger
franks
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Melbourne and Ballarat VIC

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