Energy Matters Forums

[Tracker]

I reckon that roof shadow might be moving over the back string of panels by 2 or 3pm in summer at least. .

Guys, I have not noticed the words in the thread, but is the cure not an obvious one..?

Leap-Frog the shaded panels NE, to the front of that roof face.. Likely a 2 hour job !
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[offgridQLD]

I reckon that roof shadow might be moving over the back string of panels by 2 or 3pm in summer at least. .

Guys, I have not noticed the words in the thread, but is the cure not an obvious one..?

Leap-Frog the shaded panels NE, to the front of that roof face.. Likely a 2 hour job !
..
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I take it your suggesting moving the top row of 6 panels down to the lower section of the roof in front of the vent pipe. I think i did mention that somewhere in my posts as a simple fix option. It might gain an extra 1 hr or so before shading cuts into the 2nd row(now top row) . There is a very high tree line around 100m north east of the home. I will just check shading on the bottom of the roof early morning before doing the swap down but i think it will be fine.

You can see the tree line in the distance in this pic.I don't think they will shade the bottom section of roof though.


Here is a modified pic to see if we are on the same page


Kurt

[offgridQLD]

Well we have settled into the new home now. I have good news and bad news.

The good news is we love everything about the house and location. The homes power system is performing very well to.

The not so good news is the old owner mentioned on initial inspection the PV's were 6.6kw 24x 275w panels unfortunately He didn't have a clue what he was on about and it turns out after getting on the roof they are 165w panels and we have 4kw of pv.I remember thinking they didn't look big enough to be 6.6kw but I was thrown out by the size - scale of the home (very big house) and thought it was a illusion.

Anyhow it is what it is. All other specs listed before are correct for battery's and inverter-charger.

I had the guy out today who installed the system originally. He more or less told me everything I already worked out my self. I am getting a copy of the remote access software from him for the inverter so I can monitor things from my laptop. He claims the system has had a very easy life over the past 2 years as the old owners were not at the home often. He also explained why the top string of panels were installed so high that they get shading in the late afternoon. Apparently the old owner insisted they go there as they looked better no matter what they told him .

So at this stage I am down 2.6kw of pv on what I thought I had so that puts a spanner in the works as to how I want to go about powering the workshop. My thinking has changed. I am now confident the big selectronics ps1 inverter charger with a true 6kw continuous 12kw peak rating and can most likely handle the home's and the workshop no problem at all.Like Others have suggested rather than A intendant system that a 600mm deep 20m long trench and a 240v cable from the inverter to the workshop is the way to go. I tend to agree now. What I think I need is more PV's perhaps another 2kw or so.

My thinking is molding that extra 3kw of pv into what I have now gets messy if I want to try and match panels to what I have. So best bet would be a separate array feeding into the inverter-charger .Anyhow I need to think about it some more. The selectronics ps1 can charge at 120a

At this stage we have been living between two homes our base load has been around 2kwh a day . fridge-freezer 520ltr,septic pump. Then just standby loads from garage door opener, two sensor lights, dishwasher.

I guess I have to include the inverters 65w x 24hr consumption of 1.5kwh when turned on. so 3.5kwh day total base load when we are not there.

More photo's data and rambling to come shortly.

Kurt

[offgridQLD]

Updated components list


At this stage I at least have more of a understanding of what components I am dealing with. My next project is to try and work out what the best way is to track the data collected each day so I can have a better understanding of my consumption and how my system in performing.

I have just found out there could be two ways of tracing my system. One could be obtaining the inverters remote software and running a cable to the house ( I think i will go this way). The other could be to use the plasmatronics PLA interface. The 2nd option could give me a more direct reading in and out of the battery's and thats what really counts. Although the inverter software can give me data on average - peak AC load. even the ability to start my generator from inside.

I have a copy of some gaphs that the installers printed out during a initial systems check in 2009 the graphs are printed from the inverters logged data(most likely with the software I don't have yet) The interesting Graph is one showing total source KWHr total load KWHr. I take load is any AC the inverter produced and source would be any charge to the battery bank.

Anyhow here is a pic of the graphs taken in the 1st report just after the system was 1st installed over winter. 2009 .There was a note that the generator was switched off and had not been used. This is the program I have requested a copy of so I can access this info myself from my laptop.

[offgridQLD]

One question I have regarding the 1st graph(load & source KW hours)

looking at the data for the first day it looks like they have consumed just under 8kwh and charged just over 12kwh.Then the second day it looks like they have consumed around 5kwh and then charged just under 14kwh.

The ratio of consumption vs charging (if i am reading the graph correctly ) looks way out. I would expect say 70% efficiency from PV to final 240v AC output. From that graph it looks like 50% efficacy. Actually it doesn't follow a logical pattern as its all over the place.

Unless there is some way of logging potential output but i wouldn't think so.

Kurt

[Gordon-Loomberah]

Kurt, I'm afraid I don't believe those graphs - unless someone was shining some very bright lights on your solar panels at night, so it's not really possible to comment on the amount of charging vs power use. Those graphs are showing the batteries being charged all night, albeit at a lower rate than the daytime charging. There is a big problem somewhere, perhaps with the software?

Here are a couple of the graphs I produce each day, from Wednesday. You can see the solar is only producing power during the day on the gross graph - green line, plus a little bit of wind power in the evening after the sun went behind the hill around 6pm.

Gross

click to de-fuzz

Net

click to de-fuzz

[offgridQLD]

I would have to agree. I did see that night time production on the graph. I will disregard that first graph as really only the accumulative consumption KWH on it looks remotely accurate.

Nice looking graphs on your system very clear and easy to follow.

The third graph I posted showing the shunt amps looks more promising as it drops to zero from 6pm - 6am the next morning.Feeding peeks of around 50amps into the battery's by 11am.Actual all the other graphs look ok and I have a few more i didn't copy in .

The hard part about inheriting a system you didn't build your self or follow from the beginning there is some detective work filling yourself in.



Kurt

[offgridQLD]

I have a copy of the remote link monitoring software and tried it out for the first time last weekend.

before I post the data their is a bit of a long (sorry ) story.

I noticed that my generator only had a tiny sniff if diesel in the tank. This came as a shock to me as we are only at the property on weekends and have been using very little energy so why did the generator run. At first I started thinking some one has drained the tank and stolen the diesel. As it was almost full 20lt tank when we took ownership of the property Feb 1st.

I then checked the kwh meter for the generator and noticed the number had increased so the generator did run but why? We have only been using a average of 2kwh a day when we are not at the property (weekday's) and around 3 to 4kwh a day max on sat-sun when we stay there.

So I downloaded the data from the inverter to see what append and this is the event log...

Sunday, 3-Mar-2012
Time:12:06.47 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day

Monday, 4-Mar-2012
Time:15:05.02 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day
Time:15:05.02 Ev=210 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Overcharge adjusted

Tuesday, 5-Mar-2012

Wednesday, 6-Mar-2012
Time:13:00.11 Ev=101 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Equalize automatically initiated
Time:17:01.12 Ev= 69 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Generator started, 14 days since last run
Time:17:01.41 Ev= 0 In=10 Sh=8 Cm=0 Gn=3 Gs=0 Normal entry to synchronized operation
Time:17:01.51 Ev=103 In=10 Sh=4 Cm=1 Gn=3 Gs=0 Initial charge started
Time:17:11.32 Ev=230 In=10 Sh=4 Cm=3 Gn=3 Gs=0 Bulk charge started
Time:17:24.32 Ev=231 In=10 Sh=4 Cm=4 Gn=3 Gs=0 Absorb charge started
Time:17:47.32 Ev=100 In=10 Sh=4 Cm=5 Gn=3 Gs=0 Equalize charge started
Time:21:00.12 Ev=174 In=10 Sh=4 Cm=7 Gn=3 Gs=0 Run time completed in non-preferred period
Time:21:00.12 Ev= 0 In=12 Sh=0 Cm=1 Gn=2 Gs=0 Normal return to standalone operation

Thursday, 7-Mar-2012
Time:10:21.32 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day
Time:10:21.32 Ev=210 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Overcharge adjusted
Time:13:00.11 Ev=101 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Equalize automatically initiated

Friday, 8-Mar-2012
Time:11:05.47 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day

Saturday, 9-Mar-2012
Time:10:49.47 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day

Sunday,10-Mar-2012
Time:11:56.17 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day
Time:11:56.17 Ev=210 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Overcharge adjusted

Monday,11-Mar-2012
Time:13:53.01 Ev=112 In=12 Sh=2 Cm=1 Gn=0 Gs=0 Renewable battery float achieved, equalization deferred one day


It looks like on tue 5th march the bank didn't reach float charge as their is no event posting.Then on wednesday 6th march the generator was automatically started to perform a equalization 5pm and ran for 4hrs untill 9pm. Now from what I can make of it all . Equalization is always deferred one day if the battery reaches float charge and on tue it didn't reach float so wed the gen ran? The 14 day's from last time generator was run would have been when I manually requested it to start just to test it.

Monday and particularly tue 5th march was a shocking day for solar as we had over 200mm of rain that almost turned into a cat 1 cyclone. You can see on the shunt graph it was a shocker but the battery SOC was 92% min actually thats the lowest state of charge the battery has been ever from Feb 1st.

I will have to dig deeper into the setting to see if the gen ran just because it was time for a equalization as having the gen run for that long when the battery is at 92% is excessive to me if its going to do this every time it doesn't reach float charge.

This following data was put into excel graphs you can see data starting Sunday 4th march - Sunday 11th march. Low consumption during the week as we are not their and more on the weekends. you can also see the tue 5th low output day.

one weeks Data showing amps into the battery



Same time showing state of charge %


Same time showing bat voltage


Same time showing average load watts.


This last one is showing each days kwh consumed - produced. Now I know the graph is wrong in excel as is shows pv output over night but the totals are correct for kwh consumption I think it just gets messed up in excel. Buggered if I know how it measures potential pv output? Anyhow you can see we are struggling to consume 4kwh when we are there. We usually run the washing machine-dishwasher-espresso machine, machine,stereo,laptop-modem and lighting. The 10th - 11th we had a guest over so extra water pump usage. I honestly think when we are living there full time we could say 5kwh day would be all we would use



Ok to sum up don't like the generator 20lt of diesel cost me $30 to fill the tank from empty I feel it isn't necessary. Ok if its starts very rarely to do a EQ charge of the bank . Perhaps it was just ready for one and it had just kept getting deferred 1 day until finally i had a low output day? How often is EQ charging needed? I feel running the gen is regular thing its silly especially with my system size and small load.

Finally I did the math and I am struggling to believe a like new kubota j108 generator could burn through $30 20 ltrs of diesel just to do a EQ over 4hrs so perhaps some one did pinch some of my diesel fuel.


kubota j108 specs.

Fuel - Diesel fuel No.2
(ASTM D975)
Fuel
Consumption at Full Load L/h (gal./h) 3.1 (0.8)
at 3/4 Load L/h (gal./h) 2.5 (0.7)
at 1/2 Load L/h (gal./h) 2.1 (0.5)
at 1/4 Load L/h (gal./h) 1.6 (0.4)
Fuel Tank Capacity L (gal.) 37.0 (9.8)
Continuous
Operation
Hours at Full Load h 11.8
at 3/4 Load h 14.7
at 1/2 Load h 18.0
at 1/4 Load h 23.1


you can see below this is the wattage data produced by the generator every sample taken every 15min over the 4hr run time. So it ran roughly at 1000w its 8kva so thats under 1/4 load on the gen perhaps 6ltrs max!! hmmm perhaps some one did take some diesel . Anyhow there is a lock on it now and my 3 security cameras are now installed and watching the gen shed and the tractor.
1156w
1682w
1909w
1134w
928w
956w
1024w
995w
967w
1029w
1049w
992w
1019w
1084w
1006w
1020w


Kurt

[offgridQLD]

Ok this gives a much better picture of how the system went over the last year most of it other than feb 2012 is old owners. This data is 30 day values for the last year. We took ownership Feb 1st 2012.It will be interesting to compare our gen usage and overall kwh - day consumption to the old owners. Looks like they were using around 11kwh a day for August most likely worst month and ran the gen for 33hrs over that month. You can see Feb 2012 the average drops off to 2kwh a day with us the gen didn't run at all over feb. So now I think the gen just started to do a maintenance EQ charge in march and not because of battery voltage or SOC. I need to find out how often its programed to do a EQ charge.


looking at the July consumption works out to around 5kwh a day most likely what we would be using max and they ran the gen for 12hrs to produce 34kwhs so 2.8kw 1/3 load of the gen it consumes 2lt diesel hr for 1/2 load. So lets just say around 20ltr's of diesel to produce that 34kwhs over July. Assuming Jul -Aug are the worst months I could expect them to cost me around 40ltrs $60 in diesel.Boy thats a expensive way to produce power roughly $1 kwh at 1.50L .

It will be interesting to see if the assumptions are correct as they are all based on data strung together and assumptions based on specs but its all I have to go on untill i have more time living with the system to collect my own data LOL.

graph 30 day values over 1 year.




Kurt

[Tracker]

I take it your suggesting moving the top row of 6 panels down to the lower section of the roof in front of the vent pipe. I think i did mention that somewhere in my posts as a simple fix option.

Kurt - Just noticed this question - Needless to say you weer right..

I did not notice any subsequent comment, but do you think you saw an improvement in daily production..
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