Energy Matters Forums

[Tracker]

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but the issue is CHINA, CHINA and if I could say, CHINA.

They are making it possible to buy a landed DW for $150, because it's made in quantities.
Most brands come from the one factory, and you can tell by looking at the filter in the bottom.. They are ALL the same, just with different doors.

ONLY a idealist would think that a manufacturer would ever make something that was highly serviceable, and capable of a MANY years of serviceability..
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[zzsstt]

Because our economy demands ever increasing growth, quality products with a long life and easy repair are simply not acceptable. It doesn't matter what message we give to retailer or manufacturers, because "we" are a tiny minority in the mass of people who WANT a new :insert name of product: every year or two.

Every now and again there is a pleasant surprise though. My DeWalt drill battery is getting old and needs replacing. The new ones of course are Lithium. When Makita changed to Lithium batteries they changed the shape and size of the battery so to upgrade you needed all new tools. But DeWalt, amazingly, have retained the same form factor so the new batteries fit the old tools! If I buy a new lithium battery (and charger), I can keep using all my old tools....... For a company to walk away from the opportunity to force the purchase of all new tools is something of a miracle these days!

[Smurf1976]

Much of the economic activity ("GDP") is completely pointless anyway. Work hard, earn some $, then spend it to buy things you already have whilst you throw the old ones away. Completely pointless.

I read somewhere that the average life of a bathroom or kitchen, that's the whole room not just the paint on the walls, is well under a decade these days. If someone put in a new kitchen in the year 2000 then most likely it's been at the tip for a few years now, and the one that replaced it will be due for replacement within the next few years. Now that's nothing short of outright madness both financially and environmentally.

I see lawn mower shops as being a good example of the overall situation. I remember the days when if the mower broke either you fixed it yourself or, if you weren't good at such things, you took it to the "mower shop" to be fixed. Nobody in their right mind would throw away a machine that wasn't at least 15 years old. But in 2011 the cost of labour alone would likely exceed the cost of a cheap new mower, and there's at least one brand where you can't even buy a replacement spark plug such is the extent of its' disposable nature.

[bpratt]

Every now and again there is a pleasant surprise though. My DeWalt drill battery is getting old and needs replacing. The new ones of course are Lithium. When Makita changed to Lithium batteries they changed the shape and size of the battery so to upgrade you needed all new tools. But DeWalt, amazingly, have retained the same form factor so the new batteries fit the old tools! If I buy a new lithium battery (and charger), I can keep using all my old tools....... For a company to walk away from the opportunity to force the purchase of all new tools is something of a miracle these days!

Ryobi did the same when they went from nicad to lithium, they kept the same battery form factor.

Of course, they had the ONE series of power tools, and I'm sure if they had've changed the form factor, the uproar from disgruntled buyers would've cost them big time. I know I would've been rather pissed off if I wasn't able to upgrade to lithium batteries without upgrading all my tools.

But you're right, so many change things so drastically so it effectively makes the old stuff redundant, where you end up binning the old still quite capable and working items, in order to use the new technologies.

[Smurf1976]

But you're right, so many change things so drastically so it effectively makes the old stuff redundant, where you end up binning the old still quite capable and working items, in order to use the new technologies.

This is one thing that really puts me off electric (cordless) devices in general.

What are the odds that 10 years from now I'll be able to buy a replacement battery for a 36V cordless lawn mower?

And what are the odds that 10 years from now I'll still be able to fill a can with 5 litres of two stroke?

Sadly, longevity very much favours avoiding things like cordless electric mowers and even casts a huge shadow over the concept of an electric car. Just how serviceable will a 2015 model electric car be 10 or 15 years down the track when that model of battery pack has long since been replaced with something else? In contrast, any reasonable workshop can keep a conventional car running for its' full useful life even if a few bits need to be improvised.

[zzsstt]

Sadly, longevity very much favours avoiding things like cordless electric mowers and even casts a huge shadow over the concept of an electric car. Just how serviceable will a 2015 model electric car be 10 or 15 years down the track when that model of battery pack has long since been replaced with something else? In contrast, any reasonable workshop can keep a conventional car running for its' full useful life even if a few bits need to be improvised.

I've said the same thing myself. I finally sold off a 1950's tractor that I still used almost daily, and replaced it with a new one. Sure the air conditioned cab is great, and it steers itself whilst I listen to the iPod, but I have absolutely no doubt that it won't still be running in 50 years, and equally no doubt that the 1950's tractor, if serviced regularly, will be going strong when my new one has died.... The only thing that has almost killed that old tractor is stupid OH&S regulations!

My parents bought an electric cooker when they were married. It lasted for 30 or so years, with elements being replaced and a new clock. Then the spares became hard to get and so they had a new kitchen with a new cooker. The new cooker failed after 4 years, and failed again after 6 years at which time the parts could not be obtained so a new cooker was needed.......

The issue is not really battery vs. mains power, the issue is that parts are no made cheaply and made for one model - so when that model ceases production the parts go with it. In times past the parts were made to last until they wore out (many years) and because they were shared across many models they were produced for a long time. Long production life, long service life and commonality meant that those parts could keep machines going for a long time. These days parts are cheap plastic that will break long before they wear out. They are made in a nameless Chinese factory for a couple of weeks for a specific model, and once production has ceased it's not even worth warehousing a stockpile of parts, because most people will replace the entire unit rather than repair it anyway!

This entire situation is very sad, and flies in the face of any global warming or sustainability nonsense. Like I said in a previous post, it's even sadder when people dispose of a perfectly good product to replace it with one that will save 5% power or water, but that will fail or be outdated long before it's embedded costs have been repaid.

But such is our nature. We currently have several trades union striking for more pay. But that's more pay for the same or less work. More for less. It's not possible, but we've lost track of that reality and expect more and better year on year. Business (which is only people after all), shareholders, employees, everyone wants to have more, better, newer, bigger.......

Talking about cheap plastic, I fitted flyscreens to all my windows just over a year ago. I have just had to replace the catches (turnbuckles, butterflies call them what you will) on all these screens because they have gone brittle in the sun, they cannot be turned without breaking and some have broken in wind. These are flyscreen catches, they will always be in the sun yet they have no UV protection at all. Worse still I cannot buy any other type of catch, so I would have to replace them all every year..... the answer was to buy a large bag of brass cabinet turnbuckles (eBay from China), and cut the end off them. Now I have brass flyscreen catches that should last a fair while! But I shouldn't have to do that, a flyscreen catch should be made to survive in the conditions in which it will be used!