Energy Matters Forums

[PeterC]

I agree that cars really are too heavy. I used to have an earlier model charade that was 600Kg, this one started at 800Kg (now 940Kg with battery). A Hyundai Getz is a tonne, a Corolla or Mazda 3 is 1.3 tonnes. Very silly.
Regardless of the motor type cars should be much lighter for better economy. Every improvement in fuel economy for at least 50 years has been taken up with increased weight and/or 'performance'.
Performance wise though it's fine, I can carry 5 people in my electric car, the range is sufficient to go from my home to any suburban location in Canberra and return and acceleration is much like other small cars. I get up to the speed limit up the first hill from my home quicker in our electric car than in our Subaru petrol car. I have not tested its speed limits having chickened out 20kph over the limit on a 100kph limit road.
Peter

[jommarjohn]

I think its going to be expensive to spent my £100,000 in this car, but probably his not an ugly car....



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[MCHesus]

I have this idea for a self built hybrid.
The idea came from a youtube vid about a UNI in the UK that made a mini a hybrid, my idea is less grand. But I'd love to have some thoughts.

Basically you covert an AWD or 4WD vehicle. Disconnect drive to one set of wheels. insert a DC motor here. Upgrade the alternator to a hi output one. Install some extra batteries to store your electricity and use this to power the electric motor.

feasible?

thoughts please people.
Cheers Hesus

[Gordon-Loomberah]

Basically you covert an AWD or 4WD vehicle. Disconnect drive to one set of wheels. insert a DC motor here. Upgrade the alternator to a hi output one. Install some extra batteries to store your electricity and use this to power the electric motor.

So now you have the extra weight of the batteries, the big alternator and a hefty big DC motor, and using the existing engine to charge the batteries? Why introduce another 2 (running internal combustion motor to run alternator, and alternator charging batteries) less than 100% efficient process into the drive train and carry a stack of extra weight around?

feasible?

unlikely if your aim is efficiency improvements. You can do it, but it will probably use more fuel than if you had left it alone.

[PeterC]

I have this idea for a self built hybrid.
.........
Basically you covert an AWD or 4WD vehicle. Disconnect drive to one set of wheels. insert a DC motor here. Upgrade the alternator to a hi output one. Install some extra batteries to store your electricity and use this to power the electric motor.
feasible?

Certainly people have thought to do a hybrid of sorts from something like a Subaru. Disconnect the viscous coupling and drive shaft to the rear wheels and it reverts to a conventional front wheel drive. Attach a motor and battery to the drive for the rear wheels. Attach a sensor to the accelerator pedal to control the electric motor. If you put it in neutral you can drive just electric rear wheel drive. If you turn off the electric motor (perhaps the battery is low) you have a conventional front wheel drive car and the electric motor just coasts along. If you made it an AC motor it would be easy to use it as a generator. Hook it up so that it coasts (open circuit) but charges the battery if you brake. A switch on the brake pedal means you get regen from slight pressure on the brake but it works mechanically as normal if you need to brake harder. If you have the motor on at the same time as the petrol engine you just drive it as normal except that you get some of your power from the electic motor so better petrol economy. I would not run a generator from the petrol motor. I would charge the battery from the mains and purchase greenpower; better than making electricity from petrol! Optionally you could disconnect the alternator altogether for a little less drag on the petrol motor and run the 12V system via a DC/DC converter from the high voltage battery. You would still need a parallel engine cranking battery to provide the high current for starting the petrol motor. Or you could jump start every time having started the car moving in electric only mode!

Peter C.

[suziauto]

We thought about something similar .. but for very different reasons..

we thought about 2 small motors on each rear wheel of a front wheel drive car say 48v dc, use a small set of AGM batteries say 72 volt 10amp and charge off either car standard alternator or as a light regen ..

A trigger switch / micro switch on wide open throttle and use as an electric boost for performance IE dump directly all 72V 70amp straight into the 2 small motors..

the only reason we would do this is for people looking to go fast for brief periods at a time.. an electric " hot up " job.. a small front wheel drive might have a 100hp engine. add 2 on the rear delivering say 20 extra hp each and thats a big increase to 140hp ...

[PeterC]

Look at this:
http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/index.php
Peter C

[munter]

A little off the hybrid flavour of the thread, but an interesting article appeared from a Deutsche Bank analyst on future pricing of batteries. The summary I read suggests significant future declines in price though I haven't read the detail.

Cheaper batteries would remove one of the roadblocks in the way of the electric car.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/28104500/Deutsche-Bank-Electric-Car-Analysis-Batteries

[PeterC]

Re
I dabbled with the idea of converting an ICM vehicle to an EV about two years ago when the dollar was worth 70 cents and came to the conclusion that it was going to be too expensive. Now the dollar is over 90 cents I will have to revisit the idea. Lithium Polymer cells were in their infancy then as were electric wheels (where each wheel housing is an electric motor)

Wheel motors are not readily available yet but a conventional conversion is very doable. Most I have heard of had little or no electrical or mechanical experience before doing a successful conversion. I certainly didn't. The cells you want are LIFEPO4, probably through EVWorks in WA (customer, no other interest). These are the single most expensive part and priced in US$. You can get a reasonable range, keep all the seats of a small car and only fill part of the luggage space. Find the nearest branch of AEVA for some help.
Peter C.

[hrmyers]

I certainly am holding out for the day of the EV, especially living in inner-melbourne where everything i really want to reach is within 20km.
several of you have identified the issue of carrying around unnecessary mass, and of course thats going to impact heavily on the performance of the car - both in terms of acceleration and range - so it is ideal, sensible, and obvious to reduce the mass to what is required. personally i hope to see more plastic panels used soon to save unneccesary mass.

however, the issue i see with the mass problem is you actually need a certain amount of mass to be safe when travelling on roads coinhabited by trucks, semi's, busses, trams, 4WD's. even a modest truck could have a mass of 5000kg+, and if you were humming along in your 500kg EV and you happened to cross paths with 5000kg of anything you dont stand a chance of having an acceptable rate of decelleration or accelleration in a new direction. the result is going to be huge forces on the occupants - greater than those experienced in a 2000kg sedan undergoing an impact with another vehicle - which are often more than enough to do severe damage to a human. This doesnt even touch on the fact that you still need enough strength in the structure to withstand a possible crush scenario with that 5000kg pinning your ev into something immovable ie a pole.

in order to achieve the efficiencies that lighter ev's theoretically offer AND preserve safety for those willing to take up the new 'revolution', it would be necessary to reduce the mass of all road users OR divide them somehow. otherwise the result is anyone willing to drive around in a light ev is driving at great risk.