how to add wind turbine to solar system?

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how to add wind turbine to solar system?

Postby timbo649 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:58 am

Hi everyone,

I have an off-grid AC coupled system. Lithium batteries 48V feed Victron MultiPlus 5000VA. Multi creates my own small "grid". Then I have 6kW solar panels and 5kW ConextRL grid-tied inverted, connected to my "grid". Conext take electricity from panels and pump power in my "grid". Multi takes power from the "grid" and charges batteries.

Crucial point here is power management. Lithium batteries would not survive overcharge, so too much power in the grid is dangerous. To avoid it, Multi send a signal to Conext to reduce power output, when batteries are close to full, and to completely stop, when batteries are full, even if there is a lot of sun. Multi does it by shifting "grid" frequency.

Now I want to add a wind turbine to support my system overnight - we live in a very windy place. The wind turbine I got generates DC in a range from 0 to 160V. The question is: how to connect it to my off-grid system? At the moment I don't have any inverters/controllers for wind turbine.

I guess there are two options:

(1) Get grid-tied wind inverter. There are not many models available. I know only two: ABB/Power One Aurora Wind inverter UNO-2.5-I-W (I could not find any company in Australia selling it) and Ginlong. I don't know if they are good enough to manage turbine load and be able to follow frequency shift commands from Multi at the same time.

(2) Find wind controller that will manage turbine and output DC voltage, that I can feed in "normal" solar inverter instead of solar panels. Control through frequency shift is a standard feature of all modern solar inverters. I don't know if such wind controller exists.

I will appreciate any advice. Thank you.

Regards, Tim
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Re: how to add wind turbine to solar system?

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:14 pm

Welcome to the Energy Matters Forums Timbo :)

These work with Latronics inverters, but not sure how it would go with your existing system:
http://latronics.com.au/products/turbine-controller

Another option might be the SMA Windy Boy, which I don't think are manufactured any more, but may be available 2nd hand.
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Re: how to add wind turbine to solar system?

Postby timbo649 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:58 pm

Thank you Gordon.

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:These work with Latronics inverters, but not sure how it would go with your existing system:
http://latronics.com.au/products/turbine-controller


I saw it but I could not understand it. Specifications are so brief, . What is input voltage, what is output? There are two models - 48V and 96V, both are 25A. What does it really mean - I'm lost.

Manual says use it only with 48V wind turbine. Are there wind turbines with constant voltage? I have no experience with wind turbines but I got an impression that all of them have variable voltage depending on wind speed. At least my turbine has variable voltage as I was said.

Too many question marks, too much frustration. I'd like to believe these guys made a good product but they can not sell it to me :-(

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:Another option might be the SMA Windy Boy, which I don't think are manufactured any more, but may be available 2nd hand.


Probably all Windy Boys are gone already. It looks, that Power One Aurora and Ginlong grid tie wind inverters can stop if grid frequency too high or too low. It's a protection feature and it's not too bad. It's not that good as graduate decrease in solar inverters but at least something.

What would happen with these inverters and turbine if grid frequency gets too high and inverter stops production? Do they stop turbine or allow it to spin without control and without any load?

Regards, Tim
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Re: how to add wind turbine to solar system?

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:10 pm

The 48V and 96V are nominal turbine output voltages, the voltage at which braking is applied is 75V or 150V for the 2 models respectively, so the 96V model would work with your turbine, which you say goes to 160V.

In your case I think you would need to use it with the Latronics Edge inverter, or else talk to the chief engineer at Latronics regarding using it with other inverters.

Wind turbine output voltage at the 3phase AC or DC output is directly related to rotational speed, but it is controlled to a suitable voltage for battery charging or grid feed by the controller, and it wont output any power if it is producing under the required voltage in low wind speeds.


timbo649 wrote:What would happen with these inverters and turbine if grid frequency gets too high and inverter stops production? Do they stop turbine or allow it to spin without control and without any load?


If you have the required dump load in place, the Latronics controller would use electronic braking at the specified voltage to limit the speed (and charge batteries if required). However, there may be cases in severe storms where this isn't enough (depends on your wind turbine), in which case, mechanical braking or auto-furling is also a good idea. You would need to talk to Latronics regarding shutting it down completely in strong wind if the inverter happened to fail.
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Re: how to add wind turbine to solar system?

Postby timbo649 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Quick update on the progress: there is no progress.

Latronics - no response. ABB - no response. Ginlong - no response.
One Australian company specializing in Wind and Solar: first response "Mate, we have everything you need!", then "Here - buy our turbine with 48-volt charge controller". I don't need turbine, I have it, and I don't need low voltage solution.

I'm still in square one. I try from other side and I'll be grateful if anyone can answer following questions:

1. Are there any grid tie wind inverters?
I see Ginlong (GCI-1.5K-2G-W) only. ABB wind inverters are not available in Australia. Latronics looks like a dead company, no response, their products are not available anywhere, Latronics Edge is not listed even on their web site. If there is only one inverter, then it's an easy choice.

2. Are there any wind controllers for DC turbines?
I saw Latronics on the web but not in the shop. Any one else?

Thanks a lot.
Tim
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Re: how to add wind turbine to solar system?

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:03 pm

Not sure when you emailed Latronics, but did you see this?

>>
Latronics email server was down on Monday the 13th February. All emails have been lost from the 12th to the 13th so if you tried to email us please send us a new email and we will respond as soon as possible. We are also experiencing difficulty in sending out emails to google servers/ gmail accounts so if you are expecting an email from us please add us to your safe list. We are sorry for any inconvenience that this may have caused.
-------------------


timbo649 wrote:2. Are there any wind controllers for DC turbines?
I saw Latronics on the web but not in the shop. Any one else?


Which shop did you look in? If you find a shop that deals with Latronics gear, then they should be able to get one in. It is unlikely anyone would carry one in stock, as there is such a tiny market for them.
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