How some people are being ripped off

The greenest watt is the one you don't have to create. Energy efficiency is the low hanging fruit of greening our homes. Ask your questions or post your energy efficiency tips in here!

How some people are being ripped off

Postby KenL » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:20 am

While doing research for a friend who was trying to minimise her power bill and had a grid connect PV system installed. I found that there is in NSW at least a wiring anomaly that has you receiving $0.08 per Kwh for your excess PV power and at the same time you are buying your own excess electricity back again at $0.18 per Kwh. :shock:
The circumstances are, and this only applies to those with Off Peak rate 2 ( 10 am to 5 pm) water heating for small capacity hot water systems
(1) You have a grid connect PV system with a FIT of $0.08 per Kwh going through a Bi directional PV power meter to the grid.
(2) You have an small electric hot water system connected to off-peak rate 2 ($0.18 per Kwh) that is separately metered.
(3) You use hot water during daylight hours while the PV system is busily collecting power for you.

The electricity you generate goes out through the Bi Directional meter to the grid and you receive ($0.08 for it, and at the same time your hot water system is heating up using your own solar power via its own meter and you are being charged for that power at $0.18 per Kwh giving the energy retailer an instant profit of $0.10 per Kwh :( :(

Putting it simply your solar power goes out through your PV meter and back in again into your hot water heater via the separate Off peak meter.

I asked numerous solar installers about and they deneighed that it could happen until I found one who would listen and really understood how the system is connected and he agreed that it can happen and he had never realised it until I brought it to his attention.


Moral of the story " Go solar hot water before going solar power"
KenL
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby bpratt » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:39 am

I think you'll find the same with anything that goes via your off peak meter, even if it is a combined one.

You generate the power, it gets fed back in to the grid, and your off peak can only take power through the meter, i.e. after you have exported.
Kaco 6600
26 x Trina Honey 250w panels. (wish I could work out how to upload to pvoutput.org)

New house build :-
http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com

My weather station :-
http://jimboombaweather.com
bpratt
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:09 pm
Location: Jimboomba, Queensland - Energex and Origin

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby Smurf1976 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:37 pm

There's an even more extreme version of that situation here in Tassie.

House has space heating and/or hot water on Tariff 42 (continuous supply 24/7, about 14 cents per kWh) and installs solar PV grid connect. Power gets exported to the grid at the FIT rate, then straight back through the T42 meter to run the heating, air-conditioning etc.

Nobody complained when the FIT was considerably higher than the T42 rate but now the opposite is true.
Smurf1976
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1032
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:56 pm

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby Windaroo Resort » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:24 am

Hummm, never thought of that, paying off peak rates for my own power :shock:
Cheers
Glenn

SMA Sunnyboy 5000 tl 20 & 22 x 250 watt Ulica Panels
Solargain 315L 2 Panel Split System with Electric Booster

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=26925&sid=24628
User avatar
Windaroo Resort
Solar Evangelist
Solar Evangelist
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:47 am
Location: Windaroo Qld

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:57 am

Surely the solution is to ditch the separate HW meter and heat water when you have plenty of PV output during the daytime?
http://gunagulla.com Loomberah weather and astronomy including live solar radiation intensity and UV + Gunagulla aquaponics, organic eggs and cherries
User avatar
Gordon-Loomberah
Community Moderator
 
Posts: 5374
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Loomberah NSW Australia

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby Tracker » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:26 am

Gordon-Loomberah wrote:Surely the solution is to ditch the separate HW meter and heat water when you have plenty of PV output during the daytime?

And that is why, as I understand it, that when PV is installed in NSW, we have everything replaced with a TOU meter and you are left to your own devices for water heating...
Ie.. you fit a clock to ensure heating during the off peak times..

That scenario of repurchasing your power is a real issue that can be overlooked by PV installers, and the reality is that the Level2 meter installer, likely needs to be aware of special needs..
one would think that the repurchasing offpeak power would not be a big issue, as surely, the offpeak switching, would not happen during peak or shoulder times...

A fix, could be to fit your own time clock, to ensure that water heating cannot happen during PV generation..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby KenL » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:44 am

A fix, could be to fit your own time clock, to ensure that water heating cannot happen during PV generation..


That may not be an option if you only have a 150 litre HWS.
KenL
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: How some people are being ripped off

Postby davidg » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:21 pm

You could fit one of my multi-channel power diversion control systems to the house electric hot water system/s it sends ONLY excess or exportable power to things like electric hot water systems (must be resistive loads) only after all things like hot water units have used the excess power, does it then allow excess power to be exported to the grid. The first ones are due for release in the next 2-3 weeks. 8-)

Price TBA.

Legally a sparkie is required to install the system.
Off-grid Systems specialist- You could store Sun to use later- I Do!
SELECTRONIC SPMC-482 7.5kW, 8.2kW's of Arrays

with AC-Coupled Grid-Connect Inverters,
1100Ah 48V Bank

Auto Backup Genset
PVOutput Stats

Sparkys light up your life :)
User avatar
davidg
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1896
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 pm
Location: Dandenong VIC- GRID - Power Retailers are a pain


Return to Energy Efficiency

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

new solar power specials