solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby davidg » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:41 am

Smurf1976 wrote:I should point out that I'm referring to large industries which buy directly from the generator (not via a retailer) and which are connected directly to the transmission network.

A very good exmple of that is the Victorian Portland Smelter it one of the single largest power users in the state and one of the things that gets cutoff under various load shedding aggreements, been around since it was built.

Smurf1976 wrote:Individual consumption of these customers ranges from 100,000 kW to over 300,000 kW on a 24/7/365 basis apart from the 1 or 2% of the time that supply is switched off.

Typically still through retailers actually, we used to be right in that bracket for power use (Small Computer data centre), once you get over 160,000 kWh's the rate per kWh drops suddenly even through a retailer it's only once you get over about 1,000,000 kWh's (1gWh) it's really worth seriously considering there are a bunch of other charges that small consumers do not see that direct have to pay, such as "distributor network access charge" something like a minimum of $12,500.00 might be more now per annum for one, there's a couple of others that are are pretty well fixed so you have to be able to cover them before it's worth going direct to the National Elecricity Market system now.

Technically it's still on topic :D
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby zzsstt » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:03 am

Load shedding for smelters etc. is fair enough. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of those facilities will not exist in 10 to 20 years anyway. My concern is more on the basis of Gordons comment, which appears to be directed at small business and domestic users. In those situations it is easy enough to use a trigger to shed loads (just like off-peak hot water etc.), but the results would seem far less useful and with a higher risk than shutting supply to a smelter for an hour.

Dropping 100,000kW in one hit equates to perhaps >50,000 homes having their air conditioners switched off (depending on duty cycles and thermostats etc.). To put that in perspective, the area defined as the City of Melbourne (37km^2) had 53,412 dwellings in it as of 2010.
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby davidg » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:17 am

zzsstt wrote:Load shedding for smelters etc. is fair enough.

The smelter roughly equates to "taslink" now .............. if it goes down. ;) under high export from TAS conditions.

Yes, it's interesting how the power from Coal Generators is regulated so it remains as a pretty constant load. Most people don't know how it all goes on in the backgorund. We just don't see it, much more complex than the average consumer realises.
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:36 pm

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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby zzsstt » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:49 pm

So once again it simply demonstrates that money is the driver for everything! No surprises there!

It would be interesting to see if they try to tax off grid installations, they did after all tax home-made biofuels, so there is no reason to think they wouldn't try it for off-grid solar. But metering and enforcing would be tough!
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby davidg » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:36 pm

zzsstt wrote:It would be interesting to see if they try to tax off grid installations, they did after all tax home-made biofuels, so there is no reason to think they wouldn't try it for off-grid solar. But metering and enforcing would be tough!

I think you would find it almost impossible to enforce. Biofuels which under various conditions is also very hard to enforce the excise (Tax) under various conditions. EG if I use SVO, then excise is almost impossible to enforce, however if I turn the SVO into biodiesel then much easier easier to enforce.

The issue with power is that off-grid is not really a form of infra-structure, afterall one pays GST on all the equipment when you buy it. If there was going to be a "tax" on power you persoally produce who is going to read the meter/s? and then who is going to pay me to maintian it (I guess it that will tax deductable, I guess I'll be forever mainting it :lol: ) My system is basically in a faraday cage, when the door is shut, I'm not going to allow a meter to interfere with my system and I'm sure as hell am not going to allow someone to stick holes in my building, unless there paying me. Then if they want to put in a meter then I'm going to charge rent, service access fees etc. You guessnhow they will be :D. I own it and no one has a right to say how I use it and there in lies the kicker.

It is my asset and I have to maintain it. The number of people that are prepared to pay for a well designed Hybrid or Off-grid system currently is quite limited right now.

Check out what is happenning in Spain, because Government is dire straights finanically and they need to prop up the existing grid system there along with very bad decisions to do with FIT's. I believe the severe backlash over the silly proposals there will have Governments being changed with wild swings against them for really idiotic decisions.
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby zzsstt » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:52 pm

I'm not sure how it is easier to enforce a tax on biodiesel rather than SVO. Both require you to voluntarily tell "them" that you have made or used it!?

As for off grid, if you compare it to bore water, then I pay for my bore to be drilled, I pay for the pump, infrastructure and running costs, and I have to pay for a meter which I have to read and then report the usage back to the government so that they can charge me for it.... Off grid power is not that different! It is already a legal requirement in this country to have an electrician install it, so they just extend that requirement (like water) such that you need permission to use the "shared resource" (sunshine) and are required to install a meter. It's easy.....

I seem to recall that all off grid installations already have to be registered (Office of Fair Trading?), so it's not that much of a jump.......

And the concept of charging them to install their meter is amusing. A similar thing went through my mind when the bore inspector left a "please keep the area around this meter clear of weeds" sticker on MY bore pump control box. The reality is that they can do just what they want. They declared water to be a "shared resource", and that applies whether it falls from the sky, runs in a river or bubbles up from the ground. That declaration enabled them to do what the hell they want with it. If they decide to do the same with sunshine, nothing's going to stop them! And just like people with bores, there aren't enough off-gridders to do anything about it! And, of course, they already have water as a precedent!

But I do agree that Spain is rather buggered as a country, as are several other bits of Europe. It is unfortunate that many governments over the last few years have made many rather stupid decisions to buy votes etc. The side effects of those decisions will be felt for years to come!
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby davidg » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:15 pm

zzsstt wrote:I seem to recall that all off grid installations already have to be registered (Office of Fair Trading?), so it's not that much of a jump.......
Fair trading = NSW - don't know what the exact rules are for there I could find out, via another sparkie mate in NSW, but I'm in Vic.

However For STC's yes assuming it qualifies, I've only ever done one that actually did qualify for STC's. But if they are not being claimed then, it gets interesting, in Vic. Now while I do this for income, the rules get very blurry, for full off-grid systems. The house wiring must be done by a licenced sparkie (nothing new) as it's LV, and where I get some of my income from :)

The rest of the system provided it does not exceed 120Vdc ripple free & 50Vac can be installed by any competent person is the way its put. Now while a prescribed CES is required for the LV electrical, one of the problems we have struck is where to send the "distributors" copy for want of a better way of putting it, we have sent them to ESV (Energy safe Victoria) and they send them back eventually, because they don't know what to do with them as there is no distributor to send it to, we're supposed ot send it to them. :lol: So the LEI come out does the inspection, essentially thats almost sort of it 8-).
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Re: solar feed in tariffs 2013 to 2014 nsw

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:44 pm

IPART has slashed the recommended (but voluntary) level of feed-in tariffs for rooftop solar in NSW, while at the same time rubber stamping an increase in gas prices in the state of up to 20 per cent:

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/nsw-sol ... ises-32916
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