Energy Matters Forums

[Tracker]

http://vimeo.com/26874089

Many will be touched by the issue of cancer.
We in the developed world are slowly poisoning ourselves, and this is aggravating cancer formation.

The above video lifts the lid on the medical industry, happy to actually kill you.
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[disenchant@solar]

Yeh was hoping this topic would come up buddy it slots in nice in the jigsaw of the rest of the topics.
My wife is a highly qualified natural therapist and is now working in a public hospital as an EN.
She introduced me to a heck of a lot of stuff including the germ theory and its not hard for most people,
IMO, to believe that in their healthy natural condition, they have the ability to fight of almost any illness, but hey thats not gonna sell drugs or keep hospitals specialising in modern illnesses going and trying to prolong human life and continuing to get payed, to an extent, its not in the drug companies interests.

Do doctors still get wined and dined by drug companies in some places, given freebies, etc

[Tracker]

Do doctors still get wined and dined by drug companies in some places, given freebies, etc

I would be confident that it is as much as ever. GP's get handed bundles of drugs to "Try Out".
Specialists would have a more "Intimate" relationship with their suppliers, as those drugs are generally far more specialised.
But, that is another issue..

It's fascinating how most specialists would be only too prepared to say that "Natural Techniques" are a waste of time, but are the first to tell you to stop them, whilst THEY are doing their "Authorised and Approved Treatments".
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[disenchant@solar]

Sweetners from drug companies, that belongs in the corrupt basket IMHO.
How drugs are always found, without exception, down the track, to always have side effects that outweigh their use.They are in the oil business, modern snake oil, the wool is so thick over our eyes now.
But we go along with the quick fixes, because to fix the real cause and not symptom is either to hard or to late for some.To live a life close to the earth and without excess, to hard.

At least pharmacisists, generally, don't stand on those raised floors anymore looking down at you,
lol that was a joke,a few of them,i find still act like some specialists do.

Whats the difference between god and a specialist ?
God does'nt think he's a specialist.

[Panther]

A good topic Tracker and I have done a lot of research into it but like anything nowadays, you leave yourself open by making suggestions etc. I would never 'recommend' any product but there is some amazing info out there from those who have been unfortunate enough to suffer from various types of cancer and the method they used to deal with it. There is one product that stands out for melanomas (which I have used) and different variations of it that may assist other forms of the illness. The product is 'Not for humans' as it is illegal to sell it for that purpose, but it is recommended for animals and readily available for 'that' purpose. However application is the same for both. Look up Black Salve (bloodroot based) and it seems there are even tablets available for internal use. As I said, this is no recommendation, but I don't have any melanomas on my arm anymore. It is a product that will not attack any healthy tissue, only cancerous tissue. And boy, does it ever.
P.

[disenchant@solar]

i got skin condition on my arms from doing work like solar, arms getting sun all day, even with sun protection,or i ran out. Solar if the sun don't kill you the CEC and paperwork will .
Wakes me up at night sometimes, want to scratch all my skin off, painful as hell, 2 paracetomol and zinc cream and ice.
I've heard tea tree is good on the non melanoma's had one burnt off on my lower neck with a prescibed stuff, it could be similar to a chemical version of the salve, just burnt it off.

[zzsstt]

Oh what a laugh!!

OK, I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry (in I.T.) and my wife held quite a high position in that industry. These days I'm a farmer and we own a pharmacy, so I feel I'm in a reasonable position to comment.

Yes, of course doctors are encouraged to prescribe particular drugs. But then my plumber is encouraged to use particular PTFE tape, and my car mechanic is encouraged to use particular oils. It's called "commerce", and it applies in every industry. If you tell me a "natural practitioner" does all their own research, then goes out in the fields and finds their own plants for ingredients, then I' be impressed by their effort but in reality they'd be unlikely to achieve much. But the reality is that they are trained according to someone elses (money making) course content, and then they buy and resell products. Which products? The ones that they are encouraged to sell, and that make them money.

So, it's all industry. Pharmaceutical companies develop products to sell. However these products have to be tested and shown to be "safe". They also have to be shown to work, and in order to get government subsidies they must be shown to offer some benefit over any current product on the market. In order to prove this, the products are tested extensively and this is where the problems begin. The "sample" of people to whom the drug is given is selected very carefully, this has to be done to ensure that the most accurate results are obtained, but the selection process can also be viewed as picking the people who are most likely to get a good outcome. Both views have some validity. The doctors administering the drugs are also picked carefully, again this is done to ensure that accurate results are obtained but it also means that the same "selected" doctors are used repeatedly, which results in accusations of bias towards doctors "sympathetic" to the pharmaceutical company in question. Again, it is easy to see why such accusations are made, but on the other hand it is easier to work with a doctor that you know, and who gives full and accurate results, than to pick a new guy every time and hope he/she is as careful and thorough as the previous one!

Then there is payment. The doctors doing the research are paid. This instantly suggests "bias", but in reality do you think a doctor would take on a mass of extra work for nothing? Would you? If I turned up and asked a natural practitioner to do 10 hours of extra work each week for absolutely nothing, I'd be very surprised to get a positive outcome!

Now we come to the data. Much analysis is done to prove that the drug is good, bad or indifferent. I hate statistics, and regard the whole thing a a pack of lies. But when faced with thousands of data points, especially where the differences are small, how else can we proceed? It's funny how people can believe that statistics can prove the world is warming, but that statistics from pharmaceutical companies are inherently false. Stats tend to prove what you want them to!

If the system were as bad as is sometimes suggested, then all drugs would instantly gain approval. In fact most drugs never even get to clinical trials, and some fail even then.

Adverse events ("side effects")? Yes, some are forseen and some are not. It is hard to test every possible combination of everything, and impossible (no matter what the stats tell you) to know what will happen after extended exposure. But this applies to everything around us, which is one of the reasons we are generally declining in health - we are eating and drinking things that we were never meant to consume.

As for "drugs" being bad, that's a decision everyone needs to make on their own. We are sold drugs every day - the TV is covered with ads telling us that we must take pain killers after playing sport, or teaching kindegarten, or running a cafe. Do we really need to? Absolutely not, but nor do we need most of the other products we are told we must have! I have no doubt that the human body is quite capable of looking after itself if treated right, but very few people actually manage to treat it right! And in any case, the body was never designed to last as long as we expect it to these days, which is why we have many cancers and age related diseases - we should have died long before they became an issue!

Can natural therapies help? Of course some can, but "natural" products are still chemicals, synthesised by plants and animals not in a lab, and that doesn't make them any less complex, nor any less likely to have harmful effects. Brown snake venom is "natural", but I'd rather not have it anywhere near me! There is no doubt that some natural produts can be beneficial. There is also no doubt that they too can have side effects, and there are many that do nothing and some are quite dangerous. But they tend to have a "following" of almost religious proportions, at least until they are shown to do nothing, and sometimes even afterwards. Their are people who still believe Steve McQueens wonder cure for cancer even though it didn't cure him and has been proven not to work. Though of course it was mainstream medicine that proved it didn't work, so the believers will quote "profit motive".

I read a series of books about "natural farming" and livestock production, and I know a bunch of people who follow them religiously. And that's a shame, because close inspection reveals the author has very little idea of what is being suggested. Like many such people, they have taken a few good ideas and a lack of thorough understanding, and developed a mantra that a particular audience will lap up.

Everyone is trying to make money. Most people in health care, natural or mainstream, genuinely want to help (though that's hard to believe when faced with the miserable witches in many emergency departments). But lets be honest, I suspect that probably 90% of "headaches" are caused by dehydration, or dehydration the previous day. But will a pharmacist tell you to have a glass of water when you want to buy paracetamol? No, because they won't make any money. But equally, will a natural practitioner? Again no, and -from experience - they'll probably find a bunch of other things you need to take/buy, and charge for the consult. And in my experience they won't be shy of telling you scary stories of how the condition they've detected can't be found by mainstream medecine so there's no point in checking with your doctor because he/she won't find it ("invisible worms" in a child's eyes, detectable and treatable only by a natural practitioner and not by anybody else, how's that for quite literally scaring up business?!).

Of course then there's the patient, and they want a "silver bullet" either natural or not, because it's easier to believe that spending a few dollars can cure the of a condition over which they have no control, than to face the fact that they are overweight, unfit, dehydrated, stuffing their face full of unhealthy processed food, smoking, drinking alcohol and living an unnatural lifestyle for far longer than their intended span.

The basic point is that everyone is trying to make a profit, and the small operators, rightly or wrongly, always find fault with the big companies. Are wind farms the best option? Of course not. Is the Prius the best transport option? Not even close. Is eating a burger and then spending and hour on a StairMaster a sensible plan? Get real. But that's the society we live in.

[disenchant@solar]

Somewhat cynical zzsstt, but in my stage of life would be in some part in agreement.

Still, hopefully we've got enough well payed, law abiding, enlightened caring pharmacists, doctors, plumbers, natural practicioners, not totally self absorbed, not all having a bad day at the same time.
Crap that rubs out 90% of them .

With the drug thing, have an apple i've just took the skin off it's good for you, stuck it in a blender with acid and broke it down to a slurry, then added a drain cleaner to neutralise it, added a binder and pressed it into a bottle of pills for $50, better now.
That's probably totally under estimating how un-naturally the real drugs are derived.

The apple may make the "drugs" we need, but it's also symbotic. Naturally we'd eat the "'natural" apple to shit out it's seed. We're in a relationship with the whole apple thing.

Interesting to me caught part of a doc' on the tv were a guy was stranded at sea, hope there was'nt to much artistic license like Man v Wild , he had fishing gear and managed some bait, anyhow he found catching fish, that he was going off eating the fillets as much and found he had a hanging for the eyes and liver etc, unconsiously knew what he needed to survive.

So a naturopath puts you on a diet, told you eat the whole apple, how is that ripping you off
Do'nt need to be a naturopath to know if i was dehydrated, the first thing they would notice is my skin, eyes demeanour, would reflect that fact they knew i'd been on the piss and soon after they find out i had 1/2 dozen kids to as many mothers and would sum me up .

My wife, though she does'nt practice now, was fairly well trained, but would admit she's no expert, can size someone up and say yep right handed, got a neck injury, that's just from passing in the street, obvious.
When she massaged, within a matter of time, they often were aware of what exactly was the disease and that's often scary and confrontational to people, as you mentioned, but at least it's the truth, it's not snake oil. Yeh the diagnosis was the easy part.

Got to got to bed now were's those sleeping tabs .

[Tracker]

Naturally we'd eat the "'natural" apple to shit out it's seed.

On the contrary.. Stick the whole apple in the blender.. The seeds are the best part.. Contains the good things that cancers don't like..

we are eating and drinking things that we were never meant to consume.

Interesting that this very day, a supporter writes...

Leading medical experts explain the reasons you crave certain foods, and how the food industry has secretly engineered foods to be addictive, as well as what you can do to eliminate food cravings once and for all
Food additives, such as artificial sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), and MSG, can lead you down a path of food addiction, obesity, and metabolic syndrome, while increasing your risk for chronic disease
You can escape the diet trap and optimize your health naturally by gradually replacing processed “faux-food” with organic, nutrient-dense real foods, and other lifestyle changes such as regular exercise and proactively reducing your daily stress

Worth the read..
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/03/24/hungry-for-change.aspx?e_cid=20120324_DNL_art_1

Processed food has become a multi-billion dollar industry that dangles the carrot of "convenience." However, the price you pay for convenience is your very health and vitality. Hungry For Change exposes the dark side of the food industry's marketing plan—namely, the addition of certain chemicals that secretly can get you addicted and make you a perpetual customer (they hope). You can probably already see the parallels with the tobacco industry that, in the 1960s, began increasing the nicotine level in cigarettes, which kept smokers coming back for more.

One example of an addictive food additive is MSG (monosodium glutamate), which is added to 80 percent of all flavored foods. MSG excites the part of your brain that's in charge of your fat programs. MSG is what's known as an excitotoxin, but it's also used to fatten up mice for scientific study. Yes, MSG is the perfect obesity drug. If you want to achieve your ideal body weight and health, avoid MSG at all costs.

BTW -- If you want to follow up with some interesting reading, subscribe to Dr. Al Sears' news-letter.
He takes himself off to primitive places and learns about how the "Primitives" handle their medical care..
http://www.alsearsmd.com/
Between Sears and Mercola, there is a lot to be learnt, but you do have to accept that even THEY are making money.. Because oh-so-often, their enlightening article ends with.. ".. and my product is better than all the others.."
BUT - we are wise enough to realise that...
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[zzsstt]

Its all very interesting, but as you say it's another push to sell a product. The body does crave certain things, but most of those cravings are evolutionary - sugary foods have high energy content which is a great thing for a hunter gatherer. That's why even those civilizations least exposed to modern influences hunt out bees for honey etc.

I suspect that "sweets" and sweet processed food are indeed addictive (in some ways) but the addiction is not something unnatural, it's just our bodies responding to a basic evolutionary trait - more energy lets you run faster for longer. The problem is that we no longer need that extra energy, nor the fats and proteins in the quantites in which we consume them. Unfortunately evolution is a very slow process, occuring over thousands of generations. The result is that we have a tribal, hunter-gatherer body living in a fast food world.

Again, to suggest that the food companies are using this trait "on purpose" is much the same as saying that Toyota is using the Prius, or the Land Cruiser, or the "86" to sell cars. Of course they are. Every product is designed to appeal to something in our psyche. If we didn't want to buy it they wouldn't make it!

On a similar note, there is little if any proof that organic food is in any way better for us, or tastes any better than anything else. It's a very difficult subject, because it requires testing of not only "organic vs. conventional" but the test subjects must be in all other ways identical. And inevitably they're not. I produce grass fed beef, and free range pork. Both products taste far better than the supermarket version but they're not "organic". They taste better because they have low stress lives, and the breeds are carefully selected to produce tasty food, rather than quick growth or good feed conversion, and are run on pastures that have on-going soil balancing and improving processes in place. But none of that makes them "organic" because I still spray herbicides, insecticides, and use "artificial" fertilisers, albeit as part of a very carefully designed and controlled plan. If I was to go "organic", it would make no difference whatsoever to the product, except to make it far more expensive to produce!

So what happens at present is that a very carefully produced and selected product that happens to be "organic" is taste tested against a supermarket cheap-as-chips product that has likely been in cold storage for months, and used as proof that "organic" is better. In fact the "organic" bit has nothing to do with it, it's the care that goes in to the production, and the freshness of the product that made the difference.

I find it a great shame that people are so quick to believe what the hype tells them, whether that is Green hype or anything else!

The apple seed thing, and many other such concepts, is another along the same lines. Depending on peoples belief system, apple seeds (cherry pits, peach stones) will cure cancer or not. In many such situations, those who think it's true almost inevitably also state that the "government" is on a conspiracy with "big business" to make money by killing us. The funny thing is that most such people will say "so many scientists believe in AGW that it must be true", and then have complete faith in the couple of fruit-loops who have "proved" that rubbing [insert "natural" compound X] on themselves cures anything and everything, when the vast majority of scientists say it doesn't........