Energy Matters Forums

[peter69_56]

I agree, what we have created is a society whose only solution to everything is to manufacture something to fix it. What of the days of waiting until something was unfixable before replacing it. We seem to have money churn as a great idea to have jobs from nothing. We could increase water costs and then offer rebates, but i hate that. I hate going into medicare and picking up money I have already paid out. A whole cottage industry in giving you back money you had a month ago. So in the case of water, make it expensive, and more so the more you use. If you chose to use a lot, then pay premium prices, if not then be frugal or put in catchment. The user pays or saves, no third party cottage industry churning money.

As a family of 5 when young we had 2 small water tanks, I think about 3000 litres each. We lived with those all our life until we sold our farm. We lived with what we had, and if it broke, learned to fix it.

[zzsstt]

Yes, in fact I mistakenly said the average persons usage, when I was actually meaning "household" usage.

In fact the BASIX target is a reduction on the current average usage of reticulated water. It runs from 0% to 40% reduction, which does indeed mean that at the 40% level the usage per person is 150L/day, based on a current average of 90,340L per person per year. However this does not include captured rain water, this is strictly reticulated "mains" water. So in fact the 150L does not include toilet or laundry use, which BASIX suggest are supplied from a rainwater tank.

However, I still stand by my original point. The average person does not require 150L reticulated water per day (600L per household). I would have thought that 200L/household should be ample. After all, we only drink a couple of litres a day!

[peter69_56]

As a part of the exam to adulthood, put each person in the desert with a small amout of water. I have had to do this a number of times when young, and it makes you realise the value of water, and how to conserve.

I have drunk (and wouldnt reccommend it) water most wouldnt wash in due to need.

We pour a glassfull, take one mouthful and throw the rest away. If the governemt applied the tax rule in this way would we put up with it (oh silly me, they already do). But seriously we are such a wasteful society the throw away society and we expect our young to know right from wrong, and what they should do, yet we set bad examples as a society and a race. Our business model, thought pattern and whole way of living is based on it.

Change for good must be communally done, lead by example. A good way is, as you say, you have this much water to live on, how you do is your business, choose the way you live!

[zzsstt]

If you chose to use a lot, then pay premium prices, if not then be frugal or put in catchment. The user pays or saves, no third party cottage industry churning money.

As a family of 5 when young we had 2 small water tanks, I think about 3000 litres each. We lived with those all our life until we sold our farm. We lived with what we had, and if it broke, learned to fix it.

2 x 3000L is minimal, you may have had 3000 gallon tanks?

Our old cottage had an 18,000L tank, but it only had about 80m2 roof area. Even so, the result was that when we had a lot of rain the tank overflowed (not efficient) and when we had several months without rain we did (twice in four years of drought) run low on water. In which case a 14,000L tanker of water cost $220.

When I built my new house I decided to pay up front and put in catchment. Every roof is connected to storage (even the dog kennel), and the total domestic storage is just short of 200,000L. The cottage now has 27,000L, and the farm has about 60,000L for spraying and wash-down of equipment, although it should probably have three times that due to the roof area available! The trouble with tanks is that you need to be able to catch all the rain, so in times of heavy rain you store water for drier times. The normal calculations don't work unless rainfall is very predictable. If you get 10mm of rain each and every week, a small tank may work because you only need to store 1 weeks water. But if you get 80mm of rain and then nothing for 2 months, you need to store 2 months water.

[jarbar]

Our household consumption for six people five years ago was about 950ltr/day.Since connecting a couple of water tanks 7500ltr in total,our last bill showed 192ltr/day or 32ltr/person.And that includes occasional topping up of pool from tanks primarily or mains if necessary.The Victorian governments goal of 155ltr/day during the drought was noble but still excessive,and our results just shows whats possible when given a target.If we can achieve the same outcomes with solar electricity that will be even better.

Anthony.

[karlajensen]

Jarbar :- good to hear you're alive and well. Health now better?

This thread has had some decent interest, and some good responses.

Regardless of cost.....guess i'll add it to the list of projects for Perth.

Did it in Melbourne and family of 4 survived on 5000L with 100m2 of roof no problems.

6000L is enough for 2-3months when used wisely. Like anything, if its raining have a bath., If its not raining then don't.

[zzsstt]

Hmmm, we live entirely on tank water, but I don't think we could make 6000L last 2-3 months!

4 people, 8 minutes (4 x 2min) of showering every day at 8L/minute (I think that's what the new shower heads use) = 64L

Toilet use maybe 15L/person/day = 60L

Already we're up at 124L/day and that's before drinking, cooking, washing clothes or plates! To make 6000L last 2 months I'd need to be at 100L/day total

I would think that about 50-100L a day per person would be a reasonable total amount of water, depending on time of year, and a bunch of other variables. Obviously that can be improved with waterless toilets and so forth, but even with a standard 3/6 flush toilet I would have thought that 100L would be all that was needed as an absolute maximum. This, however, is total water and not just "potable" water as BASIX like to describe mains water. It always amuses me that BASIX make a big thing of "potable" water vs. tank (rain) water, given that most people who live out of town happily drink rain water - and, by the way, make gagging noises when given a glass of "tap" water. One of my kids once asked why she was given a glass of "swimming pool water" at a cafe!!

[karlajensen]

indeed my wife refused to drink the rain water when I put in our first tank.

when we moved to Perth, she wants rainwater tanks as she refuses to drink the tapwater

We dont have the showering requirement that high. I only shower every other day in winter as with a desk job I dont raise that much of a sweat for it to be an issue

[peter69_56]

We had 6 in our family on a farm. 2 small tanks. One tank had one tap through the wall to the kitchen. Other was one tap into another building which was the bathroom/laundry. Water was boiled on the stove, or on a boiler in the laundry, fire wood underneath. We had to bucket the water from the open boiler to the bath, we didn't drain the water like we now would, first in bathes, second in, after the first (remember this is in a cement sheet room and concrete floor, no insulation, plaster or lino), then a new bucket of hot water, third, 4th and so on. Now we all wanted to be first as the water was clean then. No one wanted to be after our father as when he went in it would be black and hay seeds floating about after him.

Now thats saving water, wouldnt recommend it to anyone but when you bucket the water from place to place, wood heat, and so on you learn to conserve.

When the 2 tanks ran low, we would take a 1500 litre tank down to the creek and hand pump water into it, bring it back and hand pump into the tank.

The toilet was an external drop toilet into a 20 litre empty grease can, when full 2 children were picked to go dig a hole and empty it.

When I see people complaining about the tap water being so bad they have to have bottled water I roll my eyes and thing you have NO idea of how it can be.

Where I lived it snowed in winter, remember, no inner cladding and all concrete floors and no heating in the bathroom/laundry area. In winter you had a very quick bath.

I appreciate every day hot running water, heating, insulation, clean tap water, flushing toilets.

As i said earlier our tanks were about 3000 litres each so not a lot and we learned to live on that and only go for additional water during summer.