Heating and cooling options

The greenest watt is the one you don't have to create. Energy efficiency is the low hanging fruit of greening our homes. Ask your questions or post your energy efficiency tips in here!

Heating and cooling options

Postby jimbo » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:41 pm

Hi guys,

It looks like we will be moving back into our place mid next year (Near Ballarat in Vic) but before we do i would like to get a few things sorted. I work away a bit, so my girlfriend who is a nurse spends 7-10 days alone looking after everything.

Heating- We currently have a wood heater which is great but because my g/f does shift work it would be great if there was a quick way to heat the house on those days she gets home late at night. The house is very open planned which does not help the situation. Does anyone here use an LPG flued space heater? I understand they use a bit of gas but i can't see my batteries handling a large reverse cycle AC unit at night.

Cooling- The house is fairly well insulated but a few days of 35-40+ really takes it's toll. We have a small split system in the bedroom that we can keep on all night with no problems but the rest of the house stays hot. I had ducted evaporative Cooling at my other place and enjoyed being able to leave windows open and have a bit of a breeze through the house. Has anyone used evap cooling off grid?Any idea of their power consumption? I remember paying $4600 to get a unit installed over 7 years ago so they are not cheap but have seen you can buy a mid sized quality unit for under $2000.

Any ideas.



Note: We have around 3kw of panels but looking to add another 1.5-2kw before we move in. The batteries are 1600 amp, 24v Raylites that are now over 7 years old.
jimbo
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Ballarat

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby jimbo » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:38 pm

No one heated or cooed their house on lpg or evap cooling :D
jimbo
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Ballarat

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby Tracker » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:53 pm

...
Jimbo, I recall a few discussions about Evaporative Cooling, and I think the outcome was that reverse cycle heat pump was better..

As for heating.. if you were considering RAC cooling, then that solves your heating needs, provided the bride is not like mine and "finds" it just too dry.. :evil:

I had wondered, how a combination of a small LPG and RAC would go... Unflued LPG, releasing moisture..

And don't jump down my throat about Unflued gas and LPG... I have used it all my life, and my brain is as good as the day I was born.. just never got any better :(
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5059
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby davidg » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:37 pm

jimbo wrote:No one heated or cooed their house on lpg or evap cooling :D


don't know about cooed :lol:

....... No I would not use LPG for heating, unless it was for a single room and then only maybe. Evap cooling should work should draw a rather low current.

For our new house I'm going to use a water chiller heat pump type system connected to the hydronics in slab to make it cool, and ceiling fans to push the air across the slab. I believe it should work fairly well, being a big chunk of thermal mass. Chiller system will only run when the sun is driving it. 8-)

How about using solar air heating maybe :?:
Hybrid & Off-grid Systems - You could store Sun to use later- I Do!
SELECTRONIC SPMC-482 7.5kW, 7.2kW's of Arrays

with AC-Coupled Grid-Connected Inverters,
1100Ah 48V Bank

Auto Backup Genset
PVOutput Stats

We Sparkys light up your life :)
User avatar
davidg
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 pm
Location: Dandenong VIC- GRID - Power Retailers are a pain

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby jimbo » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:50 pm

For the cooling i would need something that will output at least 6-7kw as the area is quite big which would consume around 2kw-2.5kw. During the sunny day that is fine but later in the afternoon and night it's not possible. From what i have read the evap cooling should use around 800w on high (we never use above half) and 200-300w on low which is what we have it on at night.

The same goes with heating. My current batteries will not power that size reverse cycle unit at night once the sun is down for any length of time, especially when the batteries are at 10 degrees in winter. I haven't done the sums comparing split system AC running on the generator compared with an LPG heater.

I don't think i'm allowed to install an unflued heater in such a new house.
jimbo
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Ballarat

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby jimbo » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:53 pm

How about using solar air heating maybe


We already have a system that pumps filtered air from the rood cavity into the house. It works ok in spring and autumn but not in the middle of winter.
jimbo
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Ballarat

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby Smurf1976 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:52 pm

LPG for heating - yes it certainly works just the same as a gas heater on natural gas. The only problem is cost as it's rather expensive.

I totally understand the issue with wood heaters and not wanting the hassle of using it every day though. I have one, and use it mostly on weekends. Coming home from work at 6pm etc it's just too much hassle messing about lighting a fire. Hence my electric heating as well as the wood.

If I were you, I'd be considering (in random order and assuming natural gas is unfortunately not an option).

1. Reverse cycle A/C and upgrade power supply to run it.

2. Pellets.

3. Diesel (yes they burn clean with a blue flame and are flued the same as gas. Moderately common in Japan and NZ).

4. LPG (flued)

I'd be more than happy to help you work out the running costs of the above if you can find the local fuel prices. That said, if you're on the "green" side then I'd be leaning toward pellets if reverse cycle A/C isn't an option. Just need to check the price for pellets and compare before buying anything.
Smurf1976
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:56 pm

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby davidg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:56 am

Hey Jimbo, you have plenty of space there what not try out "large compost pile" heating. I know it works as long as you install hydronic panel convectors and apart from initial build of a pile each year it is almost power free to operate, you also get a goodly amount of compost at the end of each pile use.

Been used for hot water heating for 40+ people as well.
Hybrid & Off-grid Systems - You could store Sun to use later- I Do!
SELECTRONIC SPMC-482 7.5kW, 7.2kW's of Arrays

with AC-Coupled Grid-Connected Inverters,
1100Ah 48V Bank

Auto Backup Genset
PVOutput Stats

We Sparkys light up your life :)
User avatar
davidg
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 pm
Location: Dandenong VIC- GRID - Power Retailers are a pain

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby jimbo » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:35 am

I have seen that before dave but not sure how simple and quick it will be.
jimbo
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Ballarat

Re: Heating and cooling options

Postby davidg » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:02 pm

jimbo wrote:I have seen that before dave but not sure how simple and quick it will be.

Well if you have a "compost building party" for a bunch of people it takes less than a day for a complete built pile as long as the materials are ready to be used onsite to build it, straw, hay, say cow poo (dairies hose out tonnes of it typically) and/or lots of old food, anything else that will suit building a compost pile, plenty water. 8-) some course or ring lock style mesh << makes it easy to build with good straight vertical sides, optional. A goodly amount of poly pipe for the first one and insulation for the exposed pipe, a programmable electronic variable speed ideally with temp sensing circulating pump (Grundfos) to control how fast the water is pumped note the can get hot over 70c if your not careful and you don't want to melt the pipe, once built give it a few days to ramp up to full heat. Use with mechanical thermostats on the panel convectors heat all winter or longer for a pretty tiny amount of electricity.
Hybrid & Off-grid Systems - You could store Sun to use later- I Do!
SELECTRONIC SPMC-482 7.5kW, 7.2kW's of Arrays

with AC-Coupled Grid-Connected Inverters,
1100Ah 48V Bank

Auto Backup Genset
PVOutput Stats

We Sparkys light up your life :)
User avatar
davidg
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 pm
Location: Dandenong VIC- GRID - Power Retailers are a pain

Next

Return to Energy Efficiency

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

new solar power specials