Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby bpratt » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:32 am

Tracker wrote:..
Just reading general comments...

FLICK Mixer... would that work as a practical device.. :idea:


Whilst it's not a bad idea, the problem I see with it is that it could easily be bumped changing the output temperature a great deal up or down on the desired temperature.

That's where a tempering valve comes in to its own, you need to make a deliberate decision to change the temperature.

Of course you need to get one that goes down as low as I want it to go. Thinking that the temperature I want is 30 degrees, I'm kinda thinking that setting it to 40 will allow the initial not-so-warm water to come through before temperature is reached, then the 40 degree water will blend and give me water in the machine at somewhere close to 30, achieving the intention of not having the washing machine heat any water itself.
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby offgridQLD » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:00 am

The point I was trying to make was the economics of a VT solar hot water system (guessing a quality brand name large unit installed would be $4000?) then lets say $200 for extra plumbing and valves to control the hot water into your washing machine and dishwasher.

Now $4200 could purchase 4000w of raw PV but lets just say 2000w of installed pv. lets say 8kwh pr day average output. So is it better to put a vac tube hot water system in or just add an additional 2000w of pv and use electricity for all your hot water needs, instantaneous in your appliances and perhaps the same for main hot water or a tank and element.

Pv is just so cheep now days.

Kurt
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby bpratt » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:46 am

offgridQLD wrote:The point I was trying to make was the economics of a VT solar hot water system (guessing a quality brand name large unit installed would be $4000?) then lets say $200 for extra plumbing and valves to control the hot water into your washing machine and dishwasher.


It's a new home, so I have to get some hot water system, so I'm going for a Apricus 30 tube, 315l mid mounted electric boost, and after the supplier claims STC's it will cost around $2900.

In the meantime I'll be grid feed for quite a while till I can afford to go hybrid, let alone off grid.

Now $4200 could purchase 4000w of raw PV but lets just say 2000w of installed pv. lets say 8kwh pr day average output. So is it better to put a vac tube hot water system in or just add an additional 2000w of pv and use electricity for all your hot water needs, instantaneous in your appliances and perhaps the same for main hot water or a tank and element.


I can see the advantages, particulary as it means you can use a lot more raw electricity when the sun is shining, but I was thinking more along the lines of using the already hot water that's simply sitting there doing 'nothing'. Using your estimate of $200 for the extra plumbing, spread over the next 10 or more years, I feel it a minor price to pay.
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby offgridQLD » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:46 pm

Ok $2900 + 200 $3100 even at that price . My guess is you could still get 2000w of pv installed if your savvy.

Yes you would need a standard tank and element but Im sure that would only be $1000 ? Instantaneous electric is a option if your on the grid (no tank )

I'm not trying to knock the vac tube system. I was dead set on getting one or two of them for my off grid house but I have had a bit of a shift of thinking. The economics of it particularly when your starting out fresh and haven't purchased a SHWS. It might be worth doing the sums and seeing if just more PV and going all electric is better value.

There is the maintenance issues to of a more complex HWS and in QLD there is another worry
Image

The PV was ok with it but not sure how a vac tube would go?

Kurt
Offgrid 2008, Selectronic PS1 6kw/48v inverter, x 2 Midnite solar classic 150 MPPT, 3960w NE PV 24 x 165w BP panels, 4200w NW PV 21 x 200w DAQO PV, 16x400ah lithium.
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby bpratt » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:05 pm

offgridQLD wrote:There is the maintenance issues to of a more complex HWS and in QLD there is another worry

The PV was ok with it but not sure how a vac tube would go?


We had a ET system on the old house for around 4 or 5 years, only 20 tubes, but we have copped a number of hailstorms through that time, and we never had any problems whatsoever with hail on the tubes.

I'm assuming as they are cylindrical the hail rarely if ever hits it 'head on', and tends to glance off the side of it. You'd have more chance of hail damage with flat plate solar than with ET systems.

Thanks for your suggestions on adding more PV though.
Kaco 6600
26 x Trina Honey 250w panels. (wish I could work out how to upload to pvoutput.org)

New house build :-
http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com

My weather station :-
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby Tracker » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:38 pm

..
SPA.....
forget it... the novelty wears off very fast... hotel rooms with Spas, don't even interest..
When you think of the water alone, the guilt takes over..
The only exception is for complete reuse... but that is another project on the Gunner...List..
..
.
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Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby Smurf1976 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:48 pm

Tracker wrote:SPA.....
forget it... the novelty wears off very fast...

Agreed there. I have one, it came with the house, but to be honest I can't remember the last time I used it. Might have been late last year from memory.

The novelty of those does wear off quickly. At least it did for me. Probably half of all the use it has ever had, by me at least, was in the first 6 months of living here.
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby Tracker » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:11 pm

offgridQLD wrote: PV was ok with it but not sure how a vac tube would go.....

..
And when the crows drop those quartz eggs..
..
.
Retired Engineer and keen PV experimenter - Always ready to learn and share.
2 x CMS2000 (fan cooled) GCI and SE 170W panels
1.7kW First Solar/Outback Island circuit - Peak Replacement Power
Governments won't save the world :-) They will just TAX it :-(
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby offgridQLD » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:15 pm

Is that the glorified bath tub kind that you fill up and let the water out or a proper spa like a small swimming pool with treated water that stays in it?

I know my mum has a bathtub kind and they never use it. Just takes up a ton space in there small bathroom. filling it up with town water and hot water from there hot water service is crazy. Then your stuck in a little bathroom looking at the walls and listening to the pump noise echo around the room. Not that good.

I was thinking of having one designed into part of our new swimming pool. Outdoors and looking out over the view

just as a example like this..https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeFkU_oGf_CgJm4UxwVEOqe_uW49pvgBEI3oHGd3TumPXH0YX7pQ

After a days kayaking or bike riding in winter I think I would use it:lol:

Though every one is different some people just don't have time to use many leisure things as modern life can get so busy some times.

And when the crows drop those quartz eggs..

Yes I was standing in the shed watching them smack into the panels...nothing I could do about it it though but go oohhh gggg oooowww :shock: didn't sound good at all. No damage though lucky.



Kurt
Offgrid 2008, Selectronic PS1 6kw/48v inverter, x 2 Midnite solar classic 150 MPPT, 3960w NE PV 24 x 165w BP panels, 4200w NW PV 21 x 200w DAQO PV, 16x400ah lithium.
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Re: Saving power on dishwashers and washing machines

Postby bpratt » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:16 am

offgridQLD wrote:Is that the glorified bath tub kind that you fill up and let the water out or a proper spa like a small swimming pool with treated water that stays in it?


A real one, not the bathtub things that get emptied all the time.

As you and others have said they never get used for anything other than a standard bathtub, and waste so much.

Thinking of a big 4 or 6 person one that remains full, and hopefully will get used more than just once too ! :)
Kaco 6600
26 x Trina Honey 250w panels. (wish I could work out how to upload to pvoutput.org)

New house build :-
http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com

My weather station :-
http://jimboombaweather.com
bpratt
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