New to the world of LED Lighting

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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby ubercr » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:35 am

i've had allot of luck with the Philips globes, bought them online form simply-leds used their globe matcher to find the right one.
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Retrofitting with LED

Postby Tracker » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:59 pm

.
For what it's worth - We have had PLC down lights for the last 20 years..
I managed to source some ES sockets that I could fit in place of the PLC sockets and converted the old fittings to LED(ES) bulbs.. (discarding ballasts etc.)

VERY happy with the result.. The original PLC were 13W and I replaced a critical one with a 12W LED and how-bright-it-is..
Less critical fixtures will have 7W bulbs, so we will save power in them.

If we get another 20 years from the conversions, we will be most happy...

The issue that one faces is the physical mounting.. ie.. The existing hole..
A small effort in mounting the new socket is massively better than filling many 150mm holes

BTW - the globes are NATION STAR.. Definitely one of the more prominent CHINESE manufacturers..
..
.
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby offgridQLD » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:38 pm

It was time to look for some 50w halogen down light replacements for out on grid house. Its a small place with a simple kitchen dining and lounge open plan arrangement. There is two 50w down lights in the kitchen one over the sink and one over the bench. Next to the kitchen there is two 50w lights over the dining table and in the lounge there is just one 50w down light in the center over the coffee table. This arrangement provided good lighting for many years Often we would just leave the kitchen lights on and the background light would be enough for the lounge and dining room. Though at 110w including transformer consumption it wasn't very efficient. and with them all on it was around 275w or so. All the other lights in that house are led down stairs rumpus room,bedrooms,bathroom passage way and so on. Because the electroplating on some of the fixtures was starting to come of from heat a gave in and went hunting for a complete led light , fixture and transformer replacement.

I needed five down lights. After some online research I settled on this one.

Full testing done in the link.
http://www.ledbenchmark.com/display.php?id=162&name=SAL+Sunny+Lighting+Warm+White+LED+Downlight+Kit+White


10w total consumption, 700lm tested output, 0.9 power factor, 96 deg angle, trailing edge dimmable down to about 15% output. Didn't hardly register on the flicker graph actual got a better result than the halogen. 3034k C temp and max 46deg C at 25C so they run cool. Great large cast aluminum heat sink and a . 83 C accuracy and ip44 rated. 5 year warranty based on 10hrs use a day. $32 each as a complete kit

Was about the best i could find. They came with dimmable transformer and two pin lead. So it was a direct 2 min instillation swap from the old lights. I like how they are completely sealed from bugs at the front and cool AC leaking into the roof.

They are way to bright! I love the light quality and spread but you could perform open hart surgery at the dinning table now. I dimmer is a must have on them. I have a few clipsal trailing edge dimmers on there way and they should be great once I have them installed. Most of the time i could run them at 1/2 power. So I have cut my consumption by 5 times and perhaps more when the dimmers are instaled and I have brighter lights when needed. Another reason I wanted to install the led's is heat this house is going to be a rental soon so I wasnt comfortable with the fire starting halogen lights and the maintenance of changing the bulbs.
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby Bthree » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:06 pm

offgridQLD wrote: I like how they are completely sealed from bugs at the front and cool AC leaking into the roof.
They are way to bright! I love the light quality and spread but you could perform open hart surgery at the dinning table now.


After reading your story I went ahead and purchased two of these for the Kitchen mainly because they sound bright and we need all the light available, LED lights have really come of age and I am certainly happy with the current offerings, 10watts to replace a 50w halogen is great.

Mine arrived today and I have been waiting for it to get dark for a eyeball test, they passed well being at least an equivalent swap for the 50watters with a little more light spread (don't agree they are too bright).

I got the 70mm size S9040 which fits directly as a replacement to the existing fitting holes in the plaster originally selected when the house was built because they seal the ceiling from the roof space.

Great find, thank you Kurt.
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby offgridQLD » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:02 am

Good that your happy with them. I guess its not so much that they are to bright. Although they are brighter than the 50w mr16 Philips that they replaced. The spread is much wider. So when we are eating at the dining table its a lighter birch timber the two leds are just to bright to be comfortable. A dimmer will fix this (as most people use then in there dining rooms anyhow. Threading a needle at the dining table great crank them up. In the kitchen its fine. I just want some control over them. If your watching tv in the lounge we usually just have the kitchen lights on for back ground light and the led's at full brightness (no dimmer) and the wide spread I find them distracting. If I could turn them down to 1/3 at times when I jsut want back ground light then great.

Just not having fried insects dropping out of the fixtures or little fire starting hot lamps in the roof is great. :lol:

Did you get the warm white(mine are 3000ish K) I cant imagine how intense the cool white would be :shock:

Kurt
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby Bthree » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:24 am

Got the 3000k variety, just hate the 6000k+ find they are almost blue.

I understand they could be a little distracting, assume you got the 90mm dia variety which in the tests came up at 680 lm where the 70mm dia variety we used only made 605lm.

We are using the Philips Master 7watt LEDs over the dining table with 60deg spread at 400lm which makes them just right but these MR16s are open to the ceiling cavity through small fins and roof treatment will be required to seal them
Network = Powercor .. Retailer = Origin .. Installed Christmas 2008
Latronics PV-1200 feed by 8xTrina TSM DC-01 .. 170watt = 1360watts DC in .. 1096watts AC out .. 5+years later 990watts ac out
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby offgridQLD » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:39 am

I did get the 90mm but there are two models in the warm white one is 600 ish lm and the other is rated at 700lm I went with the 700lm . Thinking that most led manufactures usually over state there output I went for the brighter one.

I agree on the 6000k is a terrible temperature if you care at all about creating a comfortable atmosphere that doesn't look like a hospital emergency reception room :lol: .

Kurt
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby Graeme.Ambrose » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:57 am

There is another trap for players.
LEDs will work with old wire wound transformers with out a problem. They won't work with some of the newer drivers as they need a minimum 20W load to drive them.
The other problem with drivers between these two timelines is this:
Halogens run on 12v a.c. Led run on 12v D.C., so the LED has a small, crude square wave rectifier in them to convert a.c. to d.c. The problem is that this rectifier can send microbursts of high current back up the line to the driver. Eventually this kills the driver. This is why you here people complaining of their transformers dying after a retrofit.
Personally, I would look at removing them altogether and either change to GU10 fittings or taking them all out, fixing the ceiling and using dimmable, surface mount LED panels.
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby LEDMAD » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:27 am

I couple of minor comments.

You are mixing up the terminology on transformers and drivers.
In the context of LED lighting, drivers typically output regulated DC constant current. So LEDs connected to a driver won't have a need for rectification.

While LEDs are DC devices, they aren't always 12V. They can be anything from a couple of volts right up to 50V+. Further the voltage supplied to the device by the driver often varies slightly (in order to maintain constant current in different conditions).

The best solution (if money isn't a problem) is to remove the AC transformers and replace them with DC LED drivers that have been carefully selected to match the LED you are wanting to use. (i.e. a LED kit)
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Re: New to the world of LED Lighting

Postby Graeme.Ambrose » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:29 am

I agree.
It still begs the question why a house needs 50 lights.
That is 50 holes in the ceiling, possibly 50 chimneys (if the are gimballed or vented) and a 6.2 square metre gap in the insulation
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