Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

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Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby lizzydiz88 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:04 pm

Hi,
The EV options in Oz are limited, but the Nissan Leaf has become more attractive, with the price dropped to $39 990, and no-deposit 0% finance on offer (up to the end of 2014, but I suspect they will extend it). The Leaf is the world's best-selling electric car, but sales have been very slow in Oz, so they are still stocking the 2012 model.

I'm looking at buying one this year, and have found lots of useful advice on the OzLeaf owners forum. I rang Nissan Brisbane to arrange a test drive, but unfortunately their test drive Leaf was damaged in the recent storms, so they are waiting on a new windscreen. As a 5-person family, the Leaf and the Tesla S are the only 5-seat options, and the Tesla is a tad expensive though seriously desirable 8-) .

Has anyone here driven a Leaf?
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby davidg » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:29 pm

They apparently have an issue with the battery pack, they don't last like they should. In the US there have a lot of premature pack major issues, I'd be checking out warranty before committing. They are expensive to replace.
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby lizzydiz88 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:31 pm

Hi,

Yes, how the batteries perform is an important question for an electric car. I've read up about the problems in the US on Wikipedia, and they only seem to have applied to a very small percentage of cars, and ones that did high mileage. As for Australia, Nissan now offer a 5 year warranty on the battery, extended from the previous 3 years. I would hope that by the time I need a new battery, they will be better and cheaper, much like mobile phones, tvs and other rapidly moving tech.

There is always risk in being an early adopter of new technology, but I believe that there is some risk to our petrol supply too - we rely on 90% imports, and political instability or terrorist action or energy supply blackmail could all have a big effect. On top of that, there is peak oil and climate change. OK, enough ranting for now ;)

Thanks for your input, I'm trying to think through all the possible issues of having an unconventional car.
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby davidg » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:04 pm

With the leaf it was not really high mileage they neglected to ensure the packs are kept cool enough with an active cooling system, any other brand of EV that has the same sort hours run up on them with active cooling have not suffered the same sudden degradation of the batteries. Nissan is good at trying to cut corners sometimes, keep in mind high heat (+40C approx) with lithium batteries is not your friend.

There is enough documented evidence now that shows that over temperature, over voltage charging, or charging to absolute peak is the enemy of lithium, along with right extra additives that there is no reason why lithium can't last in excess of 20 years with almost no regard to the number of cycles.

There has also been a very interesting research project along with development of super accurate charging and voltage measurement system that is now able to predict expectation of true cycle life for them or degradation rate. Temperature above 40C and voltage charge above 4V for any lithium cell has a huge impact of longevity as does over discharge of course.

Frankly lithium batteries need to last and really should last at least 10 years a warranty of 5 years is too short from my point of view. I suspect that means they expect them to only last not much longer than that. Considering the size of the company and the resources they have for development it does not bode well for resale after 5 years.

#just saying
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby lizzydiz88 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:31 pm

Hi, thanks for the interesting points, and it is a pity that the Leaf hasn't got an active cooling system. I did come across something academic about lithium battery research, in which the use of appropriate additives to protect the batteries was mentioned, as well as their propensity to deteriorate when fully charged. It made me wonder whether extra additives can be added to existing batteries, but perhaps they are sealed units? The battery warranty in the US is 8 years, but seems to be 5 years in other markets.

Anyways, I'll have to wait for the test drive once the Bris test drive Leaf has had its hail damage repaired, and have a think about any issues.
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:47 am

Lizzy,
There is nothing to be to worried about in purchasing a Nissan leaf. If you want to hear from real owners of nissan leafs in QLD and you can get down to Brisbane on any 3rd wednesday of the month at 7:30pm then there are several people at the AEVA meetings that own them and you could talk with them and perhaps go for a drive. If not the AEVA has a active forum where you can ask all the questions and talk with owners.

Active cooling and issues around it was really just discovered from people cooking the car out in the sun in really hot parts of the US and then following that up with fast charging. Think driving the car to central Australia and locking it up in a bitumen car park at 40+c.

The I Miev doesn't have active cooling....well it has but it's only active when its being fast charged. (just directs air conditioning down into the battery box. The Imiev has had no battery degrading issues and really I think the leaf doesn't really have a problem as well. Just dont cook the hell out of the car and try and fast charge it at the same time and you want have any issues.

I don't agree with the over 4v being a issue statement. Remember there are several lithium chemistries with different nominal voltages. 4v is not a issue at all with the cells used in the leaf and Imiev as they have a nominal voltage of 3.8v. It would be a issue with lifepo4 cells with a nominal voltage of 3.3v.

The leaf battery cells are readily available 2nd hand. (actually I just got this email this morning)
Another batch of leaf cells have become available.. If there's anyone still looking for cells contact me at .....
A member of the Brisbane AEVA is importing them and selling them in Brisbane (salvaged from damaged new leafs overseas) the leafs were new 0km cars that were damaged when a car became unsecured on a ship in rough seas and played ping pong around the ship damaging the exterior of lots of leafs.

There is a lot of crap being thrown around on the internet that is just that and usually from people who have never even driven a EV net alone own the one in question.

The main issues owners have mentioned about their leaf has been the heater/climate control. Several people have had the heater element and control unit replaced under warranty.

Kurt
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby lizzydiz88 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:26 pm

Thanks Kurt for your thoughts. I'm actually going to Bris tomorrow to test drive a Leaf at Nissan Metro, and am excited. I've been on the Leaf owners' list, which has given me lots of opportunities to ask questions from those in the know. They really do love their Leafs, and have been very helpful. Joining the AEVA could also be something I'll do if I buy the car.

Over the last few weeks, two Tritium fast chargers, the first ones in Qld, have opened in Brisbane, so that is promising. I think a Leaf could fit in well with our driving life, and as a second car, we won't rely on it for long distance trips until the recharging network improves. Home charging will be fine in the meantime, and I've worked out that a power point will do the job, rather than spending a few thousand on a home charging system. It seems a full charge will take about 8 hours.
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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby offgridQLD » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:00 am

two Tritium fast chargers, the first ones in Qld, have opened in Brisbane,


I have used the one at Brisbane BMW with the imiev (it's been dialed down to only 20KW, guess they needed to keep some power reserve for there work shop :lol: ) Still fast though on a 16kwh battery.

Where is the 2nd one in Brisbane?

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Re: Nissan Leaf EV 0% finance

Postby lizzydiz88 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:31 pm

The second fast charger is at Tritium in Cooparoo, free but open only on weekdays.
http://www.plugshare.com/?location=60267

Given that there wasn't a single fast charger in Queensland last year, this a big improvement to now have two. :D
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