I-miev all electric car.

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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:54 am

You would need a inverter that could run on 360v DC and output AC Mains voltage. Then you would need a DC fast charger plug on the end of the inverter to plug I to the imiev's direct fast charging port on the passenger side.

Then you would need some smarts to communicate through the DC fast charging port to tell the imiev it's OK to let power through. This would have access to the 16kwh battery and have a pipeline that could flow up to 50kw DC ...Ten times more than you would ever need in surge power.

Though I have no idea who would make a inverter like that and who could sort out the fast charger port /plug and coms.

How about a generator unit that sits on the ground it has no combustion engine. Just jack the rear of the imiev up and take one wheel off . Then place a prop shaft onto the 4 stud wheel hub . Plut the car In drive at about 10% throttle would give you 5kw or so. You can get pto driven generator units off the shelf that are driven from tractor pto drives. Very mechanically but simple.

The Imiev has a 80amp DC/DC for it's 12v system that runs from the 360v 16kwh battery . Perhaps just easyer to Invest In a few 12v alliances . Small camping fridge, LED lights and a small 200 - 1000w pure sine 12v inverter. For emergency use that will see you through and all run fine from the imiev . As long as you have the ignition key on you will have access to the full 16kwh but only at 1000w max at a time. The 12v gear will come In handy at other times to.

Kurt
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby conklinc » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:19 pm

In other words, use the 12 v 33Ah lead acid battery cables and hook them up to my Toyota poptop 12 fridge. 1000w won't do much to heat water though, nor would it keep even a small room warm in the winter. You can get 12 v. washers, but they're stinkin small.

The PTO idea sounds feasible, but you'd sure lose a lot of energy due to inefficiency with the 2nd law of thermodynamics coming into play: you lose energy whenever you changes its form: from lithiums of the battery pack to turning a mechanical PTO to turning a generator. I wonder how long the 16kw would last. Would work prolly 7-8 months of the year, maybe longer if you were frugal.

It's not likely and anything will be made commercially to switch the DC lithium pac to ac 240 mains, just not enough of the i-MiEV's made to make it feasible except maybe in Japan. I believe, if I'm not mistaken, they use 110 mains, like the U.S. does.

At any rate it would be frustrating to have a fully charged i-MiEV sitting in the driveway if the grid ever went down for any length of time. Especially with 3.7 kW of panels sitting on the roof. 8 months a year, no problem. It's the late fall, winter and early spring cloudy days for a week straight that would HURT.


Regards,

Curt
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:45 pm

You could always use a high DC input voltage charge controller (Morningstar do a 600VDC input version I think) and use the iMiev battery to charge a regular lower voltage battery, which powers an inverter. The low voltage battery doesn't have to be very large, the charge controller just needs to be able to supply enough energy to keep the battery near Vfloat most of the time, ie to match the inverter load.
Alternatively there are grid connect inverters/systems (SMA comes to mind) that will operate from 360VDC, and which have a back-up/stand alone operating mode.
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby conklinc » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:04 pm

Gordon,
Your suggestion raises even more questions. I have an SMA Sunnyboy 4000w inverter for my 3.7kW of panels. How would you connect the 16kW, 360v of lithiums from the i-MiEV to the Sunnyboy inverter? Inou other words, like Kurt said, how do you get the controller to allow the battery to discharge? I assume you're leaving that up to some nifty programming?

Regards,

Curt
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:52 pm

Yes the DC fast chargers (the only device that is factory designed to be plunged into the direct DC port) Go through a handshaking processes with the Imievs battery management system. enabling the contractors to be be opend and DC current to flow. This link would need to remain open and several data streams would be monitored over the period it was accessed like voltage, temp and capacity.

The smarts are built into the DC fast charge units .

I have mentioned before that MM offered a factory DC/AC inverter for the Imiev in Japan. It's demonstrated in a few videos online running a small street party and powering rice cookers and food warmers and lights. I think it was only 1500w or so. Big heafty looking unit but most likely 110v.

It all boils down to what you really want offgrid power for . If it's just a a week or two in a emergency than worrying about your cloths dryer, dishwasher, water heater or central heating not working is a bit over the top. It's only 16kwh and most likely only about 14kwh at best is available to use.

In 1kg of LPG there is 14kwh of energy so one 9kg LPG BBQ bottle has 126kwh of energy (That's one massive battery!) one 9kg LPG bottle full (that can be stored for a long time) and a burner or two to heat water or cook on then a few small 12v appliances like lights, phone chargers, tv, radio, laptop fridge that can run from the Imiev for a very long time.

Not as cool but the most sensible way for emergency.
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:03 pm

Link to a old post on the OEM MM inverter with pics. 8th post down the page.
https://forums.energymatters.com.au/alternative-vehicles/topic5934.html
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby Gordon-Loomberah » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:26 pm

Curt, I was thinking more along the lines of connecting directly to the battery terminals, and bypassing the smarts, or are they not directly accessible? Maybe that would confuse the electronics, so it is probably only applicable if you have a battery pack from a wreck, unless you knew someone able to sort out some firmware to make it happen.
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:50 pm

Gordon,
The dc terminals are easily accessible where they enter the motor controller. There is a small secondary cover plate where the IP rated terminals enter the controller. Remove the plate and you can see two terminal posts. People have tapped into the battery from this point. Though I am guessing it would only have power when the car is in ready mode.

Though 360v DC us nasty if you make a mistake particularly when its fused to flow 50,000w+ :lol: Also terminal posts like this that are flowing that kind of power need strict attention to adequate torque settings and not really the thing you want to be doubling up with your ring terminals :lol:

That said It would be nice to be able to charge DC/DC at pack voltage from PV way more efficient. Though it ties up solar panels to one use . Having them through a dc / mains voltage inverter is more practical for where you can use the power.
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:16 pm

On another forum there was a discussion about what battery electric car to replace the Imiev with in AU.

For anyone looking for a replacement there isn't much to pick from. Nissan where only selling 2012 old stock leafs for new car prices (bugger that) in 2017. BMW have the I3 but its a BMW with price tag to match 70k or so. Tesla sell a luxury sports sedan for well over 100k and that's about it.

My view point was a lot of the newer EV's popping op on the overseas market have large battery banks 40kwh + yet the average person wont use this capacity for there day to day needs. Given lithium battery's have a calendar life . As in a EV that has been driven once a week for 8 years might have a simular capacity remaining to one that has been driven like a taxi. I feel perhaps that extra 20kwh you payed for in the larger battery over say 10 years might not actually get used and just be wasted.

I guess its the same with a offgrid house. If my stationary storage battery was 40kwh (16x800ah cells) at a cost of $20,000 vs 20kwh (16x400ah cells) I would most likely not get double life from the from the bank. I think calendar life would be the death of the battery and the larger bank would just = double replacement cost.

So for me the investment in a new 16kwh battery for the Imiev would be the best bet over a new EV. Even though would cost several thousand dollars. Spread over 10 years is just factored into ownership of a Ev. Our Imiev is only 5 years old (2012 model) so I am budgeting for a new battery in 2022 though I might not need it I think it should be factored in.

I did a comparison last week to driving our diesel ute for the 300km pr week that our imiev covers at 8lt/100km and $1.30lt . = $31.20 week or $1,620 pa. Cost to charge is free (assuming you already have a PV system large enough to cover the consumption)

The fuel saving is enough to cover the cars registration, comp insurance and have about $800pa change. over 10 years that $8000 I guess that can pay for tiers every few years and a new traction pack after 10 or so.
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Re: I-miev all electric car.

Postby conklinc » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:38 pm

Kurt,

You know how the govt. can issue a "Please explain" order when something is suspicious or sneaky. I'll issue one to you, not doubting, its just that I've never heard of the concept of "calendar life" with lithium batteries. I have a '12 with only 14,000 kms. Had it since May of '13. It sits in the garage 80% discharged during the months of Dec, Jan and part of February. I fly home this year on 7th Feb.

Can you elaborate on this notion of "calendar life" for the battery pack?

Regards,

Curt
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