Tesla's battery swap

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Tesla's battery swap

Postby offgridQLD » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:29 pm

Looks like this should take care of argument about being able to fill your gas car under under 5 min at the pump. Doesn't matter if your battery is a little tired just swap it out next time you fill up ;)

They swapped two Tesla 85kw packs in the same time it took to fill the same size car at the pump at 10 gal min.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VH4JloWFEI

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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby Tracker » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:20 am

..

all very fine. :mrgreen:


but how long does it take to pay the bill....


do they accept Coles vouchers... :oops:
..
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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby zzsstt » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:07 pm

These concepts are great, and swapping works well for barbeque gas bottles.

So now the questions:

How many battery packs will the servo have to keep in stock to ensure that they can cater for everyone?

Who will front the capital to supply all those batteries and underground machinery etc.?

As I assume that battery packs are somewhat more expensive than gas bottles, who will foot the bill for damaged, out of date or under performing packs?

What testing will be done to make sure that the customer doesn't get a duff pack and "run out of fuel" 10km down the road?

What happens when the automated systems goes wrong and cross-threads a bolt or gets dirt in the connectors? The underside of a car is a vary harsh environment!

And (as has been asked before), how big will the servos power supply have to be to rapid charge all those batteries at once?

At present a small sized servo can "self service" maybe 8 cars at the same time. A large one can handle perhaps more than 20. It can do that continuously for hundreds of cars in a row during peak periods, and the only possibility of problems are fire (rare, but it does happen) and someone filling their diesel with petrol. The Tesla solution would need stock enough batteries to supply every customer it will serve in the time it takes to recharge and test/inspect a battery, and the system would need to be resilient enough to go through tens of thousands of "swaps" with 100% success.

It is fine for Tesla to show a sparkly clean car in a studio having its battery swapped by a machine. And it's fine for them to build a service station with a massive green energy source (PV whatever) to supply a handful of cars. But how does this translate to your local servo, in the pouring rain, with mud dripping off the bottom of the car?

I really (really) love these concepts, but I'm somewhat skeptical that they can work reliably at a reasonable cost in the real world. The trouble is that liquid fuels are so easy and efficient (from a user viewpoint). To duplicate the function of a simple pump, Tesla have created a massively complex and massively expensive machine that (quite likely) will start to struggle soon after the first "idiot" drops a wheel down the hole etc., or torques up a bolt with sand in the thread and snaps the head off it next time....

And the video would have been much better if the woman in the audience hadn't been auditioning for a porn movie - "oh my god, it's so big!!!..."

And (sorry!) I'd be interested to know what was happening under the stage? Is the entire system automated or are there a couple of guys down there?

Edit:
I realise that the standard answer here is "we have to change our behavior and expectations", but if that is the case, why do we not start with the easy stuff? Think of how much fuel we would save by banning caravans. They not only hugely increase the fuel usage of the tow vehicle, but in most cases the owner is only driving a large 4WD BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CARAVAN. With no caravan, fuel consumption for two people goes from 18-20L/100km to perhaps 6l/100km in a Golf TDi, and we lose the holdups caused by people driving at 75kph in a 130kph zone. And (because I'm learning from the green movement) it has no negative impact on ME, so I think it's a great idea!
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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby offgridQLD » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:18 pm

First up I don't see the owners of a tesla model S needing to swap there battery's. The car has a range that = to many gas cars so it isn't a necessity. Tesla was just offering this to People who are desperate for the under 2 min swap out and go during a urgent (cant hang around for 20 mins) long distance (over 480km) Trip.The stations were going to have around 50 battery's each without having to make a booking and you can pick up your own pack on the return trip and it will be fully charged. The cost was estimated to be $500,000 US each station.The technical issues well I'm sure that isn't a problem. Think quick connect buckets and implements for excavator's. It might have been a bolt holding it in in the example but I'm sure there are many other ways to fasten a abject to the car ...

I think the road tesla is taking and what people will find they use (although most will charge overnight at home) is DC/DC charging HUGE battery banks (to cover peek flow) combined with grid power and PV and we are talking 150 - 200kw charge capacity :D Tesla have that now and will fund the chargers. Its there supercharger network.This will satisfy most people and they can fill there 80kwh pack fast on long road trips drive another 480km and do it again at the next 20 min coffee stop. People are kidding them self if they think they need more I know after 5hrs straight in the seat I am ready for a 20 min stretch and a drink.

and remember the masses (once tesla introduce the working mans car) wont be charging a pack for a 315kw engine 2000kg luxury car that can do 0 - 100km in under 4 seconds. You could comfortable power 3 cars off that pack :lol: hey my imiev has a 16kwh pack and dose fine for 95% of my driving

Tesla is actually doing all this not just talking about it.

Nice looking car to!
Image

No wonder its one of if not the best handling production cars ever. Look at the center of gravity!
Image

They have already outsold BMW (who were the number one) in the US in there category of car. That's huge for a new car maker in there first year. I'm just happy my stocks have gone from $60 - to just under $170 :D so perhaps I'm bias.

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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby zzsstt » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:28 pm

I agree that the overnight charge for a short distance car is the best market for electric vehicles. In that role they are unbeatable, with the usual caveats of green electricity, emergency travel with flat battery etc.

As far as swap and go batteries are concerned, I think they do have a place but from experience it is very hard to make something that is reliable out in the weather. Excavator buckets, even on a small 5 ton excavator, use very large pins with a massive hydraulic clamping mechanism. There are no threads or close tolerance parts involved. It will be interesting to see if the swappable battery system actually takes off!

I am following the development of the Tesla with interest. The claim that they outsold Merc, BMW etc. is an interesting one, and comes down to a number of factors. Most notable is that the claim relates strictly to one model of each of the "oppositions" cars, for example the 7 Series BMW, S Class Mercedes etc. It ignores the fact that Tesla only sell one model of car - if you want a Tesla you buy it, but if you want a BMW you have the choice of a large range!

What will be interesting is seeing what happens when BMW and Mercedes release their own electric cars, and also when the supply of early adopters runs out! At present Tesla has the market largely to itself, a large number of wealthy individuals looking to demonstrate their green credentials (and patriotism) and a large government funded cash incentive to U.S. purchasers. Combine that with the fact that the U.S. media cannot/will not say anything bad about the car, both because it is a U.S. product and because (as proven by Top Gear) anybody who criticizes it gets hammered by the greens, and they pretty much have the perfect wave. And at present they're riding that wave very well, it has to be said!
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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby offgridQLD » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:55 pm

I wasn't suggesting a excavator attachment I was trying to pick a extreme example. But having worked in instillation / maintenance of high speed automated production lines . I can tell you that fitting a battery pack to a car in 2 min ( 2 min is a very long time slow and steady ) It's not a big ask to come up with a way to make it work reliably.

Tesla is new and its doing things very different to what we have come to expect from the automotive industry so its hard to model it on anything we have history on.

BMW are actually working with Tesla If you cant beat them join them ;)

Battery swapping wont take off .. it can be done if there is a need for it but there wont really be a need for it. Fast charging is the answer. Anyhow once you have driven a ev for a while you would be willing to change a few things for all the benefits its just such a better way of putting power to the wheels period.

On the weekend we sold our old 4cyl run around car so we just have our Imiev electric and our diesel Ute. when faced with the option of filling the ute up at around $100 for a tank or the Imiev for $2 or free if off solar its not a hard choice to make :lol:
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby planetled » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:03 pm

I completely agree with zzsstt,

There is definitely a lot of issues that need to be overcome such as weather conditions and realistic stock of battery packs by service stations. Never the less I am looking forward to see the development of cars like this over the next decade.
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Re: Tesla's battery swap

Postby offgridQLD » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:51 pm

Tesla install 1MW battery backs at there 120kw supercharger station to balance the grid load.

Tesla is also going into residential And commercial battery systems from 10kw to multiple MW

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