Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby zzsstt » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:07 pm

Tracker wrote:and how could they charge excise for use of Home-Brew car fuel..???


Do you mean "how" from an ethical or practical viewpoint? From a practical viewpoint, you are requird to download the forms from the ATO web site, register as a producer of biodiesel and then start paying on a "declaration" basis. I would assume that electric cars and CNG, when "they" get wind of them, will fall under the same scheme! From an ethical viewpoint, it is no different to working for a week and then paying a large chunk in tax, or making an investment and paying CGT on the profits...!

Tracker wrote:The only question I am left with is what constitutes a FULL CNG tank and how far that will take you.


As you suggest, if the compressor output is 6.6L petrol equivalent/hour, and the time to fill a tank is 2.5 hours, then the tanks has a petrol equivalent of 16.5L - or about 165km of range in their "typical" car! Which is interesting because they say you can travel for 170km on $10 of "station" CNG - not without refueling you can't!!

Also, again as you suggest, 2.2kw for 2.5hours is about $2 in electricity, or >20c/litre petrol equivalent even at cheap rate. Natural gas, last time I looked, was about 2c/Mj, which equates to 76c/m^3 (at 38mj/m^3). The compressor specifications state 6m^3 = 6.6l petrol equivalent, so

(6m^3 x 76c/m^3) / 6.6 = 69c/litre petrol equivalent.

Add the 20c for electricity and you get 89c/litre.

I'm rushing because I have to cook dinner for the kids, but that doesn't equate to the 27c/litre petrol equivalent that they state....

Edit:

It would appear that 1L of petrol has much the same energy a 1^m3 of natural gas (35mj for petrol, 38mj for natural gas) so the 6.6m^3 = 6.6L petrol does hold true. And if 2c/mj is the correct price for natural gas, then the price in the advertising blurb of 27c/litre petrol equivalent would indeed seems a gross understatement, even disregarding the electricity to run the compressor!
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby zzsstt » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:37 pm

Also, just for interest, CNG produced at home is currently exempt from duty if it is "not in the course of carrying on an enterprise", and using a compressor capable of not more than 10kg/hour*. So domestic compression of fuel for a private vehicle (not a business vehicle) is exempt from duty.

CNG produced for sale or use in relation to a business IS taxed....

* 1mj = 0.019kg, so 6m^3/hour is 6 x 38 x 0.019 = 4.3kg/hour
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:13 pm

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how good it is that others can get their head around all the maths.. THANKS.
..
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Smurf1976 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:25 pm

For anyone in Hobart, Tas Gas (the gas company down here) has a public CNG station at Self's Point (Hobart area).

For LNG there's a filling station at Brighton and one somewhere near Launceston.

The only users of CNG that I'm aware of, apart from Tas Gas itself in company vehicles, is the Hobart City Council which has a few works vehicles (small trucks etc) running on it. Their depot isn't far from the refuelling station. According to what the workers tell me (I asked....), the CNG isn't as powerful as an otherwise identical diesel truck. This can be an issue when there's a big load of road gravel being carried up hill etc but it gets them from A to B eventually.

As for LNG, I don't know of any companies actually using it for trucks or buses but I do know that there's a new ship under construction at Incat which will be LNG powered. It's a normal looking Incat boat and it's for export to South America. http://www.incat.com.au/domino/incat/in ... enDocument
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:01 am

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This is the same with LPG, and it's real power difference.
I drive a toyota van with dual fuel lpg.. you must have it, as the engine must start on petrol :?: :?:

I often have to flick over to petrol on hills, if I need power..
Some driveways I would never attempt on LPG.. THE POWER is just not there..
..
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby antoni » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:50 am

Hi
Had gas on cars and v8 utes for over 20 years now.
With the right gas set up will be more power full than petrol.
Just got get the wright gas place to set it up for you.
To lean of a tune will not work as you may drive it harder for more power..
Tony.
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:03 pm

antoni wrote:With the right gas set up will be more power full than petrol.

I thought that I saw an official statement that LPG was 20% less "Power-full" than petrol..

Do you have DUAL fuel - Do you find NO difference going up a hill and switching from LPG to Petrol..

Thanks for the suggestion..
..
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby debe » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:37 pm

I have dual fuel vehicles to, if tuned to go hard on gas then they use plenty of gas!!! Ive tuned them for economy on LPG. If i want to go hard i switch to petrol.
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:18 am

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So, as there is no point in having LPG unless you are actually saving , you go for better economy and then suffer the consequences...

Yes, I find that I head for the change switch on hills .... I do drive a heavily loaded van..
..
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Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby debe » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:04 am

The other problem here in rural Aust Natural gas is not an option. LPG is 95/liter, petrol is $1.55/liter, the taxes on LPG is going to favour petrol at this rate.
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